View Poll Results: Should the poor be given free money?

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  • No, not at all

    17 37.78%
  • Yes, but only the poorest of the poor

    6 13.33%
  • Yes, everyone below the poverty line

    10 22.22%
  • Other

    12 26.67%
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Thread: Welfare for the Poor

  1. #41
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I'm referring to the likes of this. If you can challenge that empirical research, feel free.
    I'm merely asking you to concede that social mobility is possible.

    That would ignore the initial theft on the part of the rich through their misappropriation of the surplus value produced by the working class. Capital accumulation itself is based on theft. Welfare programs, conversely, sustain capitalist economic structure, as I've noted above without challenge of what I actually posted.
    Surplus value nonsense? Really? That surplus value is created by the distributive expertise and sales experience offered by the executives and middle management.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  2. #42
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I'm merely asking you to concede that social mobility is possible.
    My focus was on equality of opportunity, which is nonexistent due to the severe constrictions that generally exist on social mobility, whatever its possibility for some.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Surplus value nonsense? Really? That surplus value is created by the distributive expertise and sales experience offered by the executives and middle management.
    Aside from the fact that that comment ignores the proven superior efficiency of workers' ownership and management as demonstrated by a substantial empirical literature, executive overpayment usually obstructs the productivity of middle managers. There's available research that notes the negative effects of excessive wage dispersion, thereby providing justification for the converse strategy of increased wage compression. For instance, we might consult Wade et al.'s Overpaid CEOs and Underpaid Managers: Fairness and Executive Compensation. As noted therein:

    Much previous research on executive compensation has been predicated on previous research on executive compensation has been predicated on economic theories with their assumptions of the motivational benefits of individual competitiveness among employees. Using a sample of over 120 large public companies over a five year period, results of this study show the negative consequences of inequity in the CEO’s pay on employees at lower levels of the organization. First, the effects of CEO over- and underpayment are shown to cascade down to lower organizational levels. Second, inequity between the CEO’s compensation and that of lower level managers is associated with higher rates of turnover for these employees. Overall, the findings are consistent with the positive effects of wage compression in salaries. Theoretical implications for the design of executive compensation are discussed.
    However, as noted, the coordinator class's applications are not significantly more expansive than those of the financial class, considering the superior efficiency of workplace democracy.

  3. #43
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    This is the U.S.A and no need for people to starve to death. What we should do is stop giving all these funds to other places that wish to NUKE us and take care of our own as there is no excuse for people starving
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  4. #44
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    This is the U.S.A and no need for people to starve to death.
    People that want to help themselves but are unable (for whatever reason) and need a helping hand should never starve to death. However there are some that simply refuse to do anything to support themselves and rely on handouts to survive. If these people would rather starve to death then work I say let them starve, its there own fault.

    What we should do is stop giving all these funds to other places that wish to NUKE us and take care of our own as there is no excuse for people starving
    Totally agree with ya.

  5. #45
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    I think we ought to have a social safety net in this country where people who fall are caught and helped to get back on their feet. It should be a short-term thing only. We should not have lifetime welfare where people never have to work, never have to do anything for themselves, they just get a check from the government every month while they sit on the couch watching Oprah.

    Note, this does not apply to people who are permanently and seriously disabled and can never work, I'm talking about able-bodied people who simply choose not to. Those people can starve for all I care.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #46
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I think we ought to have a social safety net in this country where people who fall are caught and helped to get back on their feet. It should be a short-term thing only. We should not have lifetime welfare where people never have to work, never have to do anything for themselves, they just get a check from the government every month while they sit on the couch watching Oprah.

    Note, this does not apply to people who are permanently and seriously disabled and can never work, I'm talking about able-bodied people who simply choose not to. Those people can starve for all I care.
    Ditto! The days of welfare for life should be long gone and done with.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  7. #47
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    I have a younger brother who won't work....and people feel sorry for him and help him out. He is worthless, always has been.

    He is perfectly ABLE but not WILLING.....

    He is representative of the problem, those who feel sorry for him are not solving any problems, they are enabling him and the problem....
    Oracle of Utah
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  8. #48
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    These Countries have the most extravagent unemployment benefits in the World....not to mention Universal Health care.

    Let's see how they are doing?http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/wor...-happiest.html





    Low unemployment also contributes to happiness. "One thing we know for sure," says the OECD's Chapple, "not having a job makes one substantially less satisfied." Denmark's unemployment rate is just 2%, according the C.I.A.'s World Factbook. Norway's is just 2.6%. The Netherlands: just 4.5%. Many economists concur that a 4% unemployment rate reflects a stable economy. The U.S. unemployment rate is currently 9%.
    Last edited by dragondad; 09-29-09 at 11:00 AM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    The poor should be given an opportunity, not a hand out!

    Give them jobs, give them free education, give them loans for a business(if they provide a good business plan), provide an opportunity and the means for people to help themselves.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  10. #50
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    The poor should be given an opportunity, not a hand out!

    Give them jobs, give them free education, give them loans for a business(if they provide a good business plan), provide an opportunity and the means for people to help themselves.
    I was poor, in 64....
    My govt gave me a job in the Navy, and a technical education, and the GI bill to further my education after serving......

    That path is still open, to those who haven't already screwed up their lives in some way or another...
    Oracle of Utah
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