View Poll Results: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

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  • Fire arms/weapons registrations

    16 57.14%
  • Waiting Periods.

    14 50.00%
  • Laws governing how firearms are to be stored.

    11 39.29%
  • Firearms/weapon class requirement.

    10 35.71%
  • Convicted felons and certified crazy people permanently banned from firearms/weapon ownership.

    17 60.71%
  • Convicted felons and certified crazy people temporarily banned from firearms/weapon ownership

    13 46.43%
  • Age minimum requirement to buy firearms/weapons(please specify)

    24 85.71%
  • Firearm magazine size restrictions(please specify)

    6 21.43%
  • ban on certain firearms/weapons (please specify)

    15 53.57%
  • other(please specify)

    3 10.71%
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Thread: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

  1. #41
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    There should be no restrictions whatsoever, except the limits that automatically exist in natural law.


    • Age minimum requirement to buy firearms/weapons - there can be no chronological snobbery in a free society, either you are a self-owning adult or you're not. A child can become a self-owning adult through the process of legal emancipation by jury, or by default after reaching a certain age (i.e. 18). An adult can lose his self-ownership by failing to respect the rights of others (i.e. free market prisons) or demonstrating oneself incapable of functioning as a self-owning adult (i.e. mental illness). Thus children, the insane, and convicted criminals (who are yet to pay off their restitution to their victims) have limited rights, which include the right to life and to emancipation, but don't include the right to own property - their parents / guardians / caretakers own all property, including the clothes on their dependent's backs. An adult may choose to allow his dependent to buy something on his behalf, even a gun, but the adult bares the responsibility for it, and selling something to a dependent without his guardian's permission is a violation of the guardian's natural rights.



    • Convicted felons and certified crazy people temporarily banned from firearms/weapon ownership - once again, either you're a self-owning individual or you're not, and people who are "certified crazy" shouldn't be free to own guns, forks, or even shoelaces unless their guardians explicitly allow it. There shouldn't be any laws against prison guards giving their prisoners AK-47's, just as there shouldn't be any laws for making 2 + 2 add up to 4, common sense should suffice. Once you prove that you have paid your restitution for any past crimes and can be trusted to respect the rights of others in the future, you're free to own anything you like again.



    • Ban on certain firearms/weapons - this is a property rights issue. Property owners should be free to ban anything they want to ban on their property - if you don't like the rules, go somewhere else. Most neighborhood associations, local business alliances, road co-ops, and other privately-owned building blocks of a free society would have charters and other contractual standards for what is and is not allowed in their jurisdiction. Furthermore, if you may be storing potentially dangerous stuff on your property, your neighbors and anyone else who owns property that may be affected have a right to sue you, which would make nuclear proliferation utterly impossible in a government-free society.

  2. #42
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Depends how old Little Johnny is. I think anyone age 16+ should be able to buy a gun without permission from anyone (aside from the other issues we're talking about, e.g. convicted felons). I think anyone age 12-15 should be able to buy guns and ammo with parental consent and the proper training. I don't think that kids younger than 12 should be able to buy guns and ammo themselves...but I also don't think it's a horrible thing if parents buy them for their kids as long as the kids are being supervised.

    Okay...who are you and what did you do with the real Kandahar??

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  3. #43
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So I take that as a yes you think citizens should have to get permission from the government in order to exercise a constitutional right.
    So I take that as a no you're not going to answer my questions.

  4. #44
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So I take that as a no you're not going to answer my questions.
    I was the first one who asked a question.SO how are you going to not answer may question and come up with something absurd like nukes or biological weapons(another extreme anti-2nd amendment nuts like to use) and then criticize me for not answering your question?
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-26-09 at 12:59 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #45
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Who is the final arbiter of whether a law is constitutional or not? You and I can discuss it, but our discussions mean exactly jack...
    Except we are on a debate board. I mean, we could sit around and the cite the Supreme Court every time there was a disagreement on something but that would defeat the whole purpose of having a debate.

    ...as it is SCOTUS that ends up deciding. IF SCOTUS says something is constitutional, then it is, until a later SCOTUS changes it's mind. They are the final authority.
    No one is contesting the structural means of interpreting the law, as such, citing a technicality does nothing to demonstrate the merits of your argument. If you feel your interpretation of the Constitution is the correct one then make an argument using the Constitution. If I wanted to know what the SCOTUS thought I'd go to their website.

  6. #46
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    What's a "right"? Does one have a "right" to own a nuclear missile?
    Perhaps...that doesn't mean society isn't capable of over-riding that right. So long as we admit that society IS in fact over-riding that right...

    Also, an individual person could never, ever acquire - or utilize - a nuclear missile, so it's not really worth discussing.

  7. #47
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Depends how old Little Johnny is. I think anyone age 16+ should be able to buy a gun without permission from anyone (aside from the other issues we're talking about, e.g. convicted felons). I think anyone age 12-15 should be able to buy guns and ammo with parental consent and the proper training. I don't think that kids younger than 12 should be able to buy guns and ammo themselves...but I also don't think it's a horrible thing if parents buy them for their kids as long as the kids are being supervised.
    Whoa...holy crap. Huh?


  8. #48
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    I think it's fairly well-demonstrated that increased firearm prevalence is associated with increased violent crime, so I'd propose increased fees associated with firearm ownership that would cause the owner to face the true cost of his/her private ownership and thereby reduce that negative externality. Of course I can't see the purpose of these prohibitionist strategies that others push, particularly the minimum age restrictions, which are amusingly ironic coming from self-professed "libertarians."

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It is also my belief that our founding forefathers created the second amendment as a means for individuals to protect themselves and loved ones, to to protect this country if it was ever invaded, and to over throw the government if it became too tyrannical/ corrupt.
    That's pleasantly archaic, considering the advent of military-grade technology that can blow you and your little peashooter into smithereens.

  9. #49
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's pleasantly archaic, considering the advent of military-grade technology that can blow you and your little peashooter into smithereens.
    I didn't know it was that easy to defeat an insurgency. You should work for the Pentagon, as your military genius is unparalleled.

  10. #50
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I didn't know it was that easy to defeat an insurgency. You should work for the Pentagon, as your military genius is unparalleled.
    I wasn't aware that there was a substantial insurgency in existence, or that they possessed military-grade weaponry. Has this been published in a mises.org blog post that I'm unaware of?

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