View Poll Results: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

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  • Fire arms/weapons registrations

    16 57.14%
  • Waiting Periods.

    14 50.00%
  • Laws governing how firearms are to be stored.

    11 39.29%
  • Firearms/weapon class requirement.

    10 35.71%
  • Convicted felons and certified crazy people permanently banned from firearms/weapon ownership.

    17 60.71%
  • Convicted felons and certified crazy people temporarily banned from firearms/weapon ownership

    13 46.43%
  • Age minimum requirement to buy firearms/weapons(please specify)

    24 85.71%
  • Firearm magazine size restrictions(please specify)

    6 21.43%
  • ban on certain firearms/weapons (please specify)

    15 53.57%
  • other(please specify)

    3 10.71%
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Thread: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

  1. #11
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    As soon as you get the Supreme Court to agree with you, I will give merit to your argument.
    It did. US v. Miller, wherein a weapon is protected if it (the weapon, not the person) bears a reasonable relationship to the preservation of a militia. These are infantry/militia arms, and even if not every soldier carries one, the reasonable relationship is pretty clear.
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Permits/licenses for firearms/weapons: Yes.

    Fire arms/weapons registrations: Yes.

    Waiting Periods: Yes.

    Laws governing how firearms are to be stored: Yes.

    Firearms/weapon class requirement: I'm not sure what this is, can somebody explain?

    Convicted felons and certified crazy people permanently banned from firearms/weapon ownership.(please specify): Yes, if the crime was unprovoked murder.

    Convicted felons and certified crazy people temporarily banned from firearms/weapon ownership.(please specify): Yes, if the crime was deemed a "violent crime".

    Age minimum requirement to buy firearms/weapons(please specify): Yes.

    Firearm magazine size restrictions(please specify): No, I don't see the need.

    ban on certain firearms/weapons (please specify): Yes. Machine guns, silenced guns, rockets, grenades, anything chemical or nuclear.

    other(please specify): N/A
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It did. US v. Miller, wherein a weapon is protected if it (the weapon, not the person) bears a reasonable relationship to the preservation of a militia. These are infantry/militia arms, and even if not every soldier carries one, the reasonable relationship is pretty clear.
    So explain to me how there are bans for such weapons then. Apparently some one with more knowledge and authority than you stated that the ban could exist(hint, it was the Supreme Court in the very ruling you cite).

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So explain to me how there are bans for such weapons then. Apparently some one with more knowledge and authority than you stated that the ban could exist(hint, it was the Supreme Court in the very ruling you cite).
    No, it wasn't. The Miller court actually made no ruling on any specific weapon; the question re: the weapon in the case (a sawed-off shotgun) was remanded back to the lower court.

    These bans have been allowed to exist because of decades of judicial misconstruction of both the Second Amendment and Miller, and the ball for correcting all of that was recently set in motion by the Supreme Court in the Heller decision. We'll see what happens after that.
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Hmm...it seems like I always find myself on the gun control side of these discussions, and I don't even really consider myself an anti-gun person.

    Fire arms/weapons registrations
    Yes, this seems appropriate. If the weapon is ever used in a crime, this will at least show where it came from. I don't really see any downside to this.

    Waiting Periods.
    Yes. Again, I don't really see the problem with this. It will give people time to cool off before doing something stupid, if they just had a fight or something. Lots of products require a waiting period anyway (not legally, but because of the nature of the product).

    Laws governing how firearms are to be stored.
    Ehh...depends. I voted yes, because I can think of some circumstances where this would be a good idea. I believe it's child endangerment to, say, leave a loaded gun sitting next to a five-year-old's bed. On the other hand, I don't really buy into all the crap about requiring adults with no kids to keep their guns with the safety on in certain designated locations.

    Firearms/weapon class requirement.
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. Like a class that you have to take before you can use the gun? No, I don't support that. It's easier and cheaper for people to train themselves.

    Convicted felons and certified crazy people permanently banned from firearms/weapon ownership.
    Convicted felons and certified crazy people temporarily banned from firearms/weapon ownership
    Depending on the felony and/or the mental illness, either of these (or neither one) might be appropriate.

    Age minimum requirement to buy firearms/weapons(please specify)
    Yes. We have an age limit for lots of other things which society has deemed dangerous, such as automobiles, cigarettes, and alcohol. Why not firearms too?

    Firearm magazine size restrictions(please specify)
    I don't really see the point in this restriction.

    ban on certain firearms/weapons (please specify)
    The really heavy stuff like grenade launchers and flame throwers, yes. But I don't see the point in more general bans. However, I do think that individual cities/metro areas should be able to ban certain weapons if they are strongly correlated with crime and gang activity. I think it would be much too sweeping at the federal/state level though.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-25-09 at 08:12 PM.
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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, it wasn't. The Miller court actually made no ruling on any specific weapon; the question re: the weapon in the case (a sawed-off shotgun) was remanded back to the lower court.

    These bans have been allowed to exist because of decades of judicial misconstruction of both the Second Amendment and Miller, and the ball for correcting all of that was recently set in motion by the Supreme Court in the Heller decision. We'll see what happens after that.
    So 6 decades of rulings, but you know better. Got it. Heller will make things interesting, but there is no guarantee, or even likelihood, that SCOTUS will agree with you.

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    As soon as you get the Supreme Court to agree with you, I will give merit to your argument.
    Why!? Why do you use this argument? Do you know how many times the SCOTUS has been wrong? I mean, did they become infallible once you were born or something? Appeals to authority are the worst kind of illogical nonsense.

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    There shouldn't be any restrictions. This is the only amendment that keeps us safe from Obama's storm troopers.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So 6 decades of rulings, but you know better. Got it.
    It's not like I'm alone in this; there's also decades of scholarship on the issue.

    But if you'd like to take Miller and point out where I got it wrong, feel free.


    Heller will make things interesting, but there is no guarantee, or even likelihood, that SCOTUS will agree with you.
    With Heller, they already do. All of the jurisprudence to which I refer relies on the construction of Miller as declaring there is no individual right to arms. That was wrong. The Heller court said so.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: What do you define as reasonable restrictions for the second amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Why!? Why do you use this argument? Do you know how many times the SCOTUS has been wrong? I mean, did they become infallible once you were born or something? Appeals to authority are the worst kind of illogical nonsense.
    Doesn't matter; they agree with me.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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