Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

[jallman]

I was reading this story on MSNBC and I sort of understand the claim that she was discriminated against. I don't buy it, but I understand where she might feel that way. What gets me is the basis of her claim to damages:

The suit seeks back pay for the teen and a permanent injunction against the retailer from participating in what it describes as discriminatory employment practices. It seeks undisclosed monetary and non-monetary losses resulting from "emotional pain, suffering, anxiety, loss of enjoyment of life, humiliation and inconvenience."

What back pay is she entitled to if she was never employed by the company? There was no obligation of the company to hire her and there was no agreed pay specified which would lead to no back pay being owed, as far as I can tell. And did her job search just end with a rejection from A&F company?

I guess more importantly, though, is the question: does a company who's marketing is based on looks and sells a certain "look" to a target demographic have an obligation to accommodate individuals who don't or won't make concessions to accommodate their marketing strategies?

Story is here.

 

[Cephus]

Of course not, they have a right to impose any dress standard they wish and anyone who wishes to work there must abide by it. No one is forced to work there, therefore no one's "rights" are being infringed on.

This is utterly stupid, but thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

 

[rathi]

When it comes to choices like a dress code, abercrombie can make a clear case as to how it is relevant to them operating as a business. Brand image is very important in selling clothing, and it is reasonable to take steps to create that image.

However, I think it is important to note that this applies to choices like wearing clothes, not other factors like race. Abercrombie could credibly claim that hiring black kids would counteract their target demographic, and that definitely would not fly.

 

[jamesrage]

Businesses have a right to impose what ever dress code and physical standards they want, don't like that standard then go get a job somewhere else or conform to the standards set by that business. Practically every company imposes some sort of dress code or uniform requirements for their employees.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

What about an observant Jewish nurse? Does she/he have a right to expect not to work on Saturdays, when working every other weekend is standard for hospital nurses?

 

[new coup for you]

making an allowance for religious dress, particularly if it's as inoffensive as a head scarf is pretty reasonable.

this basically cements Abercrombie and Fitch as the nazi retailer, if their Hitler Youth-esque catalogs didn't already.

 

[jallman]

making an allowance for religious dress, particularly if it's as inoffensive as a head scarf is pretty reasonable.

this basically cements Abercrombie and Fitch as the nazi retailer, if their Hitler Youth-esque catalogs didn't already.

There is nothing Hitler Youth-esque about their catalogues. If anything, it captures that whole New England prep look.

 

[new coup for you]

There is nothing Hitler Youth-esque about their catalogues. If anything, it captures that whole New England prep look.

it's pictures of aryan supermen playing shirtless touch football with other aryan supermen and then retiring to their yacht.

finding a minority model in A&F catalogs is like reading a Where's Waldo? book.

they already payed 50 million for discriminatory HR practices.

A&F is on my short list (right after Juicy Couture) of stores I would firebomb if I was a fashion terrorist.

Seriously, what's the big deal about a head scarf?

 

[jallman]

it's pictures of aryan supermen playing shirtless touch football with other aryan supermen and then retiring to their yacht.

finding a minority model in A&F catalogs is like reading a Where's Waldo? book.

they already payed 50 million for discriminatory HR practices.

A&F is on my short list (right after Juicy Couture) of stores I would firebomb if I was a fashion terrorist.

Seriously, what's the big deal about a head scarf?

If it doesn't fit with their marketing strategy, it just doesn't fit. They are a successful company because of their marketing strategy. I mean really? How in the world do you think they made millions off of overly priced flannel back in the day? Yeah, remember that era of Abercrombie and Fitch? It was all about their "look". And I just don't think they need to compromise their successful strategy over a head scarf.

Look at it this way: what's the big deal about working for Abercrombie and Fitch versus working for American Eagle or Guess? Why can't she go work at one of those places?

The issue isn't her being muslim; the issue is the refusal to conform to a policy the store has. How can she possibly make demands to have that policy changed when she isn't even part of the organization yet?

 

[WI Crippler]

it's pictures of aryan supermen playing shirtless touch football with other aryan supermen and then retiring to their yacht.

Weren't you all about some kind of gay "nazi" fashion thing a while back?

 

[sazerac]

I think of the guy that lost his suit against Hooters. He wanted to be a Hooters girl or something.

Nope, businesses can discriminate and uphold an image in dress.

 

[DeeJayH]

How many white men are used in ads to sell, forgive my spelling, do-rags?
how many white women are used to sell hajibs? I see more of these since there some whites that wear them, but still, really
how many muslims are in a yamulke advertisement?
how many men are in ads selling skirts (outside of San Fran & Greenwich Village ;0)

 

[jamesrage]

making an allowance for religious dress, particularly if it's as inoffensive as a head scarf is pretty reasonable.

What if she wanted to work at Hooters as a waitress? Should Hooters allow her to wear a hajib as a waitress?

 

[MyOwnDrum]

How many white men are used in ads to sell, forgive my spelling, do-rags?
how many white women are used to sell hajibs? I see more of these since there some whites that wear them, but still, really
how many muslims are in a yamulke advertisement?
how many men are in ads selling skirts (outside of San Fran & Greenwich Village ;0)

How many guys in yarmulkes work at Hooters?

 

[MyOwnDrum]

What if she wanted to work at Hooters as a waitress? Should Hooters allow her to wear a hajib as a waitress?

Great minds think alike. :mrgreen:

 

[RightinNYC]

What back pay is she entitled to if she was never employed by the company? There was no obligation of the company to hire her and there was no agreed pay specified which would lead to no back pay being owed, as far as I can tell. And did her job search just end with a rejection from A&F company?

The back pay thing is because the law provides for it. It's a weird quirk, but it operates under the (rebuttable, I think) presumption that once you were turned down for that particular job, you were unable to find other employment and should thus be compensated for your lost work.

I guess more importantly, though, is the question: does a company who's marketing is based on looks and sells a certain "look" to a target demographic have an obligation to accommodate individuals who don't or won't make concessions to accommodate their marketing strategies?

Story is here.

I understand and agree with the underlying rationale for these laws, but I think they've been overenforced. As pointed out by rathi, a black kid shouldn't be discriminated against because black kids don't fit with an image, but it's a stretch to say that you have to allow someone to wear a hijab/burqa/yarmulke/indian headdress at the job simply because it's part of their religion.

making an allowance for religious dress, particularly if it's as inoffensive as a head scarf is pretty reasonable.

this basically cements Abercrombie and Fitch as the nazi retailer, if their Hitler Youth-esque catalogs didn't already.

I would agree that the hijab seems pretty innocuous, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and I can see the argument that it should come down on the other side.

 

[obvious Child]

While she is correct on the religious grounds per se, Islam does not require her to wear a headscarf, and therefore her argument fails.

And to make it extra hysterical, what do we do when a religion who mandates nudity has its followers suing? :rofl

A look policy is largely a valid argument. Imagine Nike hiring a guy who only wore Adidas clothing. Yeah...that will go over real well.

 

[Travelsonic]

I think of the guy that lost his suit against Hooters. He wanted to be a Hooters girl or something.

Nope, businesses can discriminate and uphold an image in dress.

Uphold an image in dress yes, discriminate (on religious, racial, or gender related reasons, of course)? I'd like to see that proven.

 

[earthworm]

What about an observant Jewish nurse? Does she/he have a right to expect not to work on Saturdays, when working every other weekend is standard for hospital nurses?

As I see it, no problem, The Jewish nurses have no problems with working on Sundays and Christmas day; true, or radical Christians, of course, do..Its just a case of tolerating religion and working around it.
But, what do they do in Israel ?

 

[Kandahar]

making an allowance for religious dress, particularly if it's as inoffensive as a head scarf is pretty reasonable.

If it was completely unrelated to her job, then I agree that they should allow her to wear the hijab. But she isn't applying for a desk job here, she's applying for a retail job at a clothing store. The way she dresses is absolutely relevant to the job, and therefore the company is perfectly justified in telling her she can't wear it if she wants the job.

this basically cements Abercrombie and Fitch as the nazi retailer, if their Hitler Youth-esque catalogs didn't already.

Yo Godwin I know you makin your law, and I'ma let you finish, but Murphy had one of the best laws of all time.

There is nothing wrong with A&F's decision here. It's based on a desire to market their image, not a desire to discriminate against Muslims. If I was their hiring manager, I would make exactly the same decision.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

As I see it, no problem, The Jewish nurses have no problems with working on Sundays and Christmas day; true, or radical Christians, of course, do..Its just a case of tolerating religion and working around it.
But, what do they do in Israel ?

In this case you are incorrect. Hospitals generally have strict policies as to the requirement to work every other weekend. If someone has the overriding need to avoid work on Saturday then a hospital is not required to accommodate them upon hire.

Sometimes, yes, they work it out in individual cases, if there is someone with the opposite need, such as the case of a nurse who wants Sundays off. But I know for a fact that you can't march into an HR office and demand this.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

If it was completely unrelated to her job, then I agree that they should allow her to wear the hijab. But she isn't applying for a desk job here, she's applying for a retail job at a clothing store. The way she dresses is absolutely relevant to the job, and therefore the company is perfectly justified in telling her she can't wear it if she wants the job.



Yo Godwin I know you makin your law, and I'ma let you finish, but Murphy had one of the best laws of all time.

There is nothing wrong with A&F's decision here. It's based on a desire to market their image, not a desire to discriminate against Muslims. If I was their hiring manager, I would make exactly the same decision.

If I were the hiring manager I would have said "We will review your application after interviewing the other candidates and get back to you"

 

[RightinNYC]

If it was completely unrelated to her job, then I agree that they should allow her to wear the hijab. But she isn't applying for a desk job here, she's applying for a retail job at a clothing store. The way she dresses is absolutely relevant to the job, and therefore the company is perfectly justified in telling her she can't wear it if she wants the job.

I'll also add that when I worked at American Eagle, we were required to wear all AE stuff all the time while we were working. It wasn't just for the sake of brand image, but also so that if someone said they liked your jeans or hat, you could turn around and sell it to them.

If A&F only sold hijabs....

 

[rivrrat]

****ing retarded.

Any business should be allowed to require a certain dress code of their choosing. Don't want to comply to it? Don't ****ing work there.

Has jack all to do with religion in this case, and everything to do with her clothing.

I hope A&F fights this all the way and wins.

 

[Hatuey]

finding a minority model in A&F catalogs is like reading a Where's Waldo? book.

LMAO. Thank you for making my day.