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Thread: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I can decide because they are choosing to operate in my country. If they want to discriminate against employees based on the color of their skin, they can go move somewhere else.
    So, because a business operates in "your" country they must abide by your hiring standards? I thought the Constitution decided what was lawful in America...

    Bottom line is that it's my money, my business, and my property - I'm perfectly within my rights to discriminate in the dispensation of my possessions. Am I violating someone's "civil rights" because I only give money to white homeless and not black ones? No? Then why does the same logic apply to hiring practices which is the same general concept?

    Tell me, how successful do you think A & F would be if they refused to hire black people? My guess is that they would go out of business, and rightfully so.

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Well to be fair, the last two posts being concerned, Ethereal brought it up,and Rathi was just responding to it.

    Yes Ethereal, they HAVE to have equality in their hiring practices in this country, and people can sue (and have successfully) for blatant racial discrimination in hiring.
    Why? That money doesn't belong to you or anyone else, which makes any imposition on the dispensation of that money nonsensical and ultimately immoral.

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, because a business operates in "your" country they must abide by your hiring standards? I thought the Constitution decided what was lawful in America...
    The Supreme Court has not ruled the Civil Rights Act of 1964 unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Bottom line is that it's my money, my business, and my property - I'm perfectly within my rights to discriminate in the dispensation of my possessions. Am I violating someone's "civil rights" because I only give money to white homeless and not black ones? No? Then why does the same logic apply to hiring practices which is the same general concept?
    Because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 applies to the work place, and does not apply to giving money to homeless people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Tell me, how successful do you think A & F would be if they refused to hire black people? My guess is that they would go out of business, and rightfully so.
    Perhaps. But getting back on subject, this particular case involved a person expecting A&F to make an exception for her, which they are under no obligation to do. Businesses may discriminate on the basis of anything they want if it affects the employee's ability to perform the job. In her case, wearing the hijab would have affected her ability to successfully market A&F products, and so they were well within the law when they decided not to hire her.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-20-09 at 03:17 AM.
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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    So, because a business operates in "your" country they must abide by your hiring standards? I thought the Constitution decided what was lawful in America...
    Exactly. The anti-discrimination laws are passed fully according the law set down in the constitution.


    Bottom line is that it's my money, my business, and my property - I'm perfectly within my rights to discriminate in the dispensation of my possessions. Am I violating someone's "civil rights" because I only give money to white homeless and not black ones? No? Then why does the same logic apply to hiring practices which is the same general concept?
    Fine, but give up limited liability, copyright and trademark protection, use of public roads to ship your merchandise, use of the police and fire department and legal protection when a race riot torches your store. Until then, understand that the vast benefits you get from being in America comes with certain requirements. It is a more than even deal.

    Tell me, how successful do you think A & F would be if they refused to hire black people? My guess is that they would go out of business, and rightfully so.
    Considering that only the most extreme government intervention managed to force the end of slavery and segregation, the market clearly does not have the capability to insure against racial discrimination. A vast number of businesses in the south thrived despite being openly discriminatory.

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again its based on clothing and not her religion.
    A repetition of a point which has already been clarified to you. Her clothing is part of her religion. Specifically that item. When you discriminate somebody based on that item then it falls under the Civil rights Act. Please understand this? Second time I explain to you.

    The fact that a sect(because not all muslim women wear hijabs) of her religion forces her to wear a it is irrelevant.
    Her sect doesn't force her to wear anything. She's made this choice in accordance to her religious beliefs. Read what I showed you.

    fact the company has a dress code that applies to everyone regardless of race,religion or what ever for specific positions. She would not adhere to that dress code and that is why she was not hired, not because she was a muslim.
    And again. When the manager made it his duty to tell her why she wasn't hired, the matter fell under the Civil Rights Act. Why you choose to misunderstand this is, is beyond me. If the manager had not given a reason, which he is in his right, the matter would probably have been ignored but he didn't and made it clearly a matter of discrimination.
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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    How would you feel if the woman had even more extreme Muslim attire, with only her eyes showing? Would that be discrimination for a company to refuse to hire her for a position that deals with the public?

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    A repetition of a point which has already been clarified to you. Her clothing is part of her religion. Specifically that item. When you discriminate somebody based on that item then it falls under the Civil rights Act. Please understand this? Second time I explain to you.
    It is not a violation of the Civil Rights Act if it has some relevance to her ability to effectively perform her duties.

    It's the same reason why Hooters doesn't have to hire guys to be waitresses. It's the same reason why movie studios don't have to hire Asian females to play black male characters. It's the same reason why pharmacies don't have to hire Christians who refuse to dispense birth control, or why bars don't have to hire Mormons as bartenders, or why newspapers don't have to hire kosher-conscious Jews as food critics.

    The hijab certainly affects her ability to successfully market A&F products to customers. If she can't perform the duties of the job because of her religious beliefs, that is her problem.
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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It is not a violation of the Civil Rights Act if it has some relevance to her ability to effectively perform her duties.
    What does that have to do with her not being hired because of a religious item?

    Title VII prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin. The Civil Rights Act of 1991 (Pub. L. 102-166) (CRA) amends several sections of Title VII.
    The moment he gave a reason for not employing her, one that had to do with her religion it came under the Civil Rights Act.
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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    so if an employer has a 'no jewelry policy' and i wear a flavor flav size crucifix, they must hire me, & let me wear it or face a Lawsuit

    BS

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    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Is A&F obligated to change its "Look Policy" to accommodate religious garb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The moment he gave a reason for not employing her, one that had to do with her religion it came under the Civil Rights Act.
    It had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with her refusal to conform to a store "uniform" policy.

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