View Poll Results: Do You Believe Health Care Is A Big Scam

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  • Yes

    5 23.81%
  • No

    14 66.67%
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    2 9.52%
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Thread: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

  1. #11
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    Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    1) That's not how stock options work. Stock options come at the expense of diluted shareholder value, not from customer payments.
    So you are saying that customer payments have nothing to do with earnings and share holder value? Seems to me that United Health has a history of customer dissatisfaction and law suits because they employ every sleazy practice to maximize earnings/ increasing shareholder value. It all begins with customer payments.

    UnitedHealthcare has agreed to shut down the controversial system it uses to determine "usual, customary, and reasonable" (UCR) charges a system the American Medical Association and New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo called a scheme to defraud patients and physicians on medical bills for out-of-network services. The company also agreed to pay to develop a new system to determine fair out-of-network reimbursement rates.

    In a settlement with the attorney general's office, United said it will close the database of billing information used by Ingenix, a wholly-owned subsidiary of United. Ingenix is the nation's largest provider of health care billing information. United and the largest health insurers in the country rely on the Ingenix database to determine their UCR charges. The Ingenix database uses the insurers' billing information to calculate UCR rates for individual claims by assessing how much the same, or similar, medical services would typically cost, generally taking into account the type of service and geographical location. Under this system, insurers control reimbursement rates that are supposed to fairly reflect the market.

    As for Mrs Edward's claim, I am sure she put stock options in her calculation. How does the three-quarters of a billion work out year to year?
    Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

    According to this site, he will earn approx. $127,001,281 in stock options for 2009.

  2. #12
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    Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    O.K., I looked into this a bit more:

    Mrs. Edwards misspoke. I doubt, seriously that it was intentional. Hemmsley has been C.E.O. since 2006. I believe that she was referring to the fact that the former C.E.O. of United Health (MacGuire) received about one in every $700 that United health received- That was probably 2005 and ,yes, I am sure the figure included the stock options he cashed in.

    Meanwhile, it does not change the substance of the film.

  3. #13
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    Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    So you are saying that customer payments have nothing to do with earnings and share holder value? Seems to me that United Health has a history of customer dissatisfaction and law suits because they employ every sleazy practice to maximize earnings/ increasing shareholder value. It all begins with customer payments.


    UnitedHealthcare has agreed to shut down the controversial system it uses to determine "usual, customary, and reasonable" (UCR) charges a system the American Medical Association and New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo called a scheme to defraud patients and physicians on medical bills for out-of-network services. The company also agreed to pay to develop a new system to determine fair out-of-network reimbursement rates.

    In a settlement with the attorney general's office, United said it will close the database of billing information used by Ingenix, a wholly-owned subsidiary of United. Ingenix is the nation's largest provider of health care billing information. United and the largest health insurers in the country rely on the Ingenix database to determine their UCR charges. The Ingenix database uses the insurers' billing information to calculate UCR rates for individual claims by assessing how much the same, or similar, medical services would typically cost, generally taking into account the type of service and geographical location. Under this system, insurers control reimbursement rates that are supposed to fairly reflect the market.
    Again, you're basing this on a misunderstanding of what a stock option is. Customer payments are not used to create stock options. Thus, it is incorrect to imply that customer payments are going towards the portion of someone's salary comprised of stock options.

    As for Mrs Edward's claim, I am sure she put stock options in her calculation. How does the three-quarters of a billion work out year to year?
    Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

    According to this site, he will earn approx. $127,001,281 in stock options for 2009.
    Again, you're misreading what they're saying there. "Stock option exercise" is not the same thing as compensation. His actual compensation, from your source, is 3.2m. Not even remotely excessive for a CEO of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    O.K., I looked into this a bit more:

    Mrs. Edwards misspoke. I doubt, seriously that it was intentional. Hemmsley has been C.E.O. since 2006. I believe that she was referring to the fact that the former C.E.O. of United Health (MacGuire) received about one in every $700 that United health received- That was probably 2005 and ,yes, I am sure the figure included the stock options he cashed in.

    Meanwhile, it does not change the substance of the film.
    Any evidence for the fact that that's true? Again, you can't count stock options being cashed in.

    If a filmmaker is highlighting demonstrably false claims, I don't really trust them. Since it was already clear that it was propaganda, I didn't see a reason to keep watching.
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    Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Another silly poll started by an illiterate or a conservative.
    No vote..
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    Health Care Is A Big Scam!And if you don't like the thread, don't post on it and don't troll it. Again, and a thread ban will be in order.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    Any evidence for the fact that that's true? Again, you can't count stock options being cashed in.
    Google MacGuire. Mea Culpa,- I should have posted the link but I don't feel like looking it up again- especially since you already reject the entire premise. I understand what you are saying about stock options but the trend to reduce salary and bulk up stock options has created perverse short term incentives whereby C.E.O.'s must pander to Wall Street first and sick people only when they cannot find a loop hole in which to avoid or reduce payment. A more revealing stat would have been the % of premium $$ that United Health spends on actual health care.

    There is a big difference between these two statements: one of every 700 H.C. dollars spent in the United States is the ratio representing the C.E.O.'s compensation package and one in every 700 dollars that United Health takes in, is the ratio of the C.E.O.s compensation package to premiums. I think that Mrs. Edwards was probably confused on this point, and no one bothered to fact check- that is very unfortunate considering that it truly undermines the rest of what she has to say.
    If a filmmaker is highlighting demonstrably false claims, I don't really trust them. Since it was already clear that it was propaganda, I didn't see a reason to keep watching.
    Suit yourself, of course.

  6. #16
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    fyi Re: Health Care Is A Big Scam!

    It is, IF it's run or overregulated by government.

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