View Poll Results: At what age should people be legally allowed to buy alcohol?

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  • No age limit

    10 10.00%
  • 15 or younger

    1 1.00%
  • 16

    11 11.00%
  • 17

    0 0%
  • 18

    47 47.00%
  • 19

    4 4.00%
  • 20

    0 0%
  • 21 or older

    27 27.00%
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Thread: What should the drinking age be?

  1. #91
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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Didn't I read somewhere that active duty service people can drink on base at age 18?
    That's what my buddy says who's going into the army.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The feds should get out of the issue and stop punishing states for making up their own minds.
    This is a good idea - we need more states rights.
    Then compare notes and see what works and what does not...

  3. #93
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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It was not long ago when my 19 year old mother drank legally in college. It was also not long ago that I started drinking in high school. I have come to the conclusion that the drinking age at 21, 18 or 19 is mostly irrelevant, except in terms of supposed brain development. A certain part of me believes there is some (while working at a liquor store, I knew it was easily to come to the conclusion that legal drinkers are hardly mature at all) maturity level difference from 17/18->20/21, but I also realize that much of that could be reliant upon the responsibility of the law and its effects on the law abiding citizen.

    I see no real reason to actively campaign for removal of the current restriction, or rather, actively campaign to maintain it.
    I like your point about maturity.

    Here, you can buy beer at 16, and we don't have so many problems about young teenagers being alcoholics. Of course, sometimes some of them try the "binge drinking" (?), but some young people also breath deodorants or even gas from lighters. You can't prevent immature people from doing immature things.

    Furthermore, bans like that make drinking alcohol more exciting: when you're prevented from doing something and suddenly you're allowed to do it, you're "forced" to try, especially when you're 18 or 21 years old.

    The main problem is not that young people can or cannot drink alcohol at a certain age, it's rather that some people become drunkards. And bans don't prevent this. Only education can do it. It's much better to be allowed to drink young and get used to it, to learn the effects of alcohol (hangovers...) and to learn to control your consumption.

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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    I am happy about the liberal Danish views on alcohol when I grew up in the 80's and 90's. From a very early age I was allowed to taste small sips of alcohol and when I turned about 15 alcohol became commonplace at parties. However there were always responsible adults (typically parents) present to prevent things from getting out of hand. Of course someone got sick at some point but the most that happened was that they puked, had a bad hangover the next day and learned where their limits were. It is unpleasant while it is going on but a good thing afterwards. I had a lot of good experiences with alcohol and have not turned into an alcoholic drunk-driver.

    Instead of alcohol being something mystic it becomes a common part of life and you learn to deal with it responsibly. Thus I don't think teenagers should be kept completely dry - instead they should be allowed to make their mistakes in a safe environment.
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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    I think the real question is:

    If we have as a society "deemed" 18 to be the age in which we consider a person to be an adult, what right does the government have in telling an adult whether they can drink alcohol?

    I understand that younger people make more stupid decisions, yada yada yada....but I don't think the government should be making decisions for people who have been deemed "Adults".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    how do i create a poll?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    I voted for no age limit, with parental consent of course.

    My parents allowed me to drink wine with dinner by the time I was about 12, I think, and I didn't like it. My dad offered me a taste of his beer whenever he would have it, and I didn't like that either. By the time I was 21 I wasn't interested in liquor of any kind. Only recently have I discovered that Mike's Hard Lemonade is pretty good, and that Tequila, while it tastes like ass, can make it so that you can't feel your face, and that not being able to feel your face is kind of funny when in the company of friends.

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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    I voted "no age," which is actually more consistent with existing laws than some would expect. The so-called "minimum legal drinking age" is actually a minimum purchase age, with actual consumption of alcohol by people under 21 prohibited in only a few states. There are additional laws against possession that are quite prevalent, however, and cause many to be hit with the charge of "internal possession" after drinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Teen drunk driving has declined by around 60 or 70% since the drinking age has been increased to 21 on the federal level. Thats reason enough to have a drinking age of 21.
    I've long been dubious of the veracity of that claim, since alcohol-related fatalities among drivers under 21 have fallen by a similar proportion in Canada, despite the fact that the drinking age remains 18 or 19 depending on the region.

    I and others have theorized that the drop in fatal crashes that occurred both in the U.S. and Canada might be better attributed to the numerous vehicular safety improvements have been made in cars since the 1980's, and the fact that auto accidents in general have decreased. Hence, it is not so implausible to suggest that alcohol-related auto accidents would decrease as part of this trend (and yes, I saw what you said in regard to that, but I'll need to see more data). In fact, I'd say it's more implausible to suggest the opposite, considering that, again, alcohol-related fatalities among drivers under 21 have fallen by a similar proportion in Canada, despite the fact that the drinking age remains 18 or 19 depending on the region. Incidentally, this is also NHTSA data.

    U.S. Department of Transportation - NHTSA - Determine Why There Are Fewer Young Alcohol-Impaired Drivers - IV. What Caused the Decrease? - DOT HS 809 348

    Quote Originally Posted by NHTSA
    Fatal crash data. Data from 1982 to date from the seven provinces for which these data are available (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, and Saskatchewan) were provided by the Transport Injury Research Foundation (TIRF). The data differ slightly from the United States FARS data in three ways. First, they record driver fatalities rather than driver involvements in fatal crashes. Second, they aggregate drivers age 16-19 rather than drivers under 21 as has been used for the United States. Finally, the TIRF file does not estimate alcohol presence for a driver without a BAC test. The proportion of fatally injured drivers with a positive BAC is calculated only for the drivers with a BAC test. Most drivers are tested: 76 percent of the age 16-19 driver fatalities in 1982 and 93 percent in 1997.

    These differences may affect comparisons between the Canadian and United States data somewhat. For example, if BAC tests are available less frequently for sober drivers than for drinking drivers, then the proportion of fatally-injured drivers with a positive BAC calculated only from the tested drivers may overstate the proportion for all fatally-injured drivers. But these differences should not affect the trends over time or trend comparisons between the two countries.

    Figure 31 shows the trend in Canadian fatally-injured drinking drivers aged 16-19. It looks rather similar to the United States trend of Figure 1, with a rapid decrease through about 1993 and no substantial change since then. (The Canadian trend fluctuates more from year to year than the United States trend since the absolute number of Canadian traffic fatalities is much smaller.) Figure 32 shows how very similar the two trends are by plotting both using a base of 1982 = 100 percent.

    Figure 31.
    Canadian Driver Fatalities, Age 16-19, with Positive BAC


    Figure 32.
    US and Canadian Trends, Percentage Change from 1982
    US: drivers under age 21 in fatal crashes with positive BAC (FARS)
    Canada: driver fatalities age 16-19 with positive BAC (TIRF)


    Figure 33 shows the trend in the proportion of fatally-injured Canadian drivers with a positive BAC. The trend is similar to the corresponding United States trend of Figure 3. The absolute percentages are higher in Canada: 67 percent in 1982 (compared to 43 percent in the United States) and 39 percent in 1997 (compared to 21 percent). Some of this difference may be a result of the different methods used to estimate alcohol involvement in the two data files. Some may in fact reflect higher drinking and driving rates in Canada. But the trends in the two countries again appear very similar. Figure 34 compares the trends directly.

    Figure 33.
    Percent of Canadian Driver Fatalities, Age 16-19, with Positive BAC


    Figure 34.
    US and Canadian Trends, Percentage Change from 1982
    US: percentage of drivers under age 21 in fatal crashes with positive BAC (FARS)
    Canada: percentage of driver fatalities age 16-19 with positive BAC (TIRF)


    Figures 32 and 34 show the same thing: as measured by fatal crash data, youth drinking and driving decreases in the United States and Canada from 1982 to 1997 were virtually identical. Other data strengthen this conclusion. In both countries, the number of young drinking drivers in fatal crashes decreased more rapidly than the number of older drinking drivers. A roadside survey in British Columbia produced results similar to Roeper and Voas (1999): a much smaller proportion of drivers age 16-19 than older drivers had a positive BAC, or a BAC exceeding the legal limit of 0.08 (Mayhew and Simpson, 1999).

    Survey data. Smart, Adlaf, and Walsh (1994) report on biennial surveys of about 4,000 Ontario high school students similar to the Monitoring the Future surveys in the United States. Table 17 summarizes self-reported drinking changes from 1979 to 1991 from the two surveys.
    Since the Ontario data come from a sample of students in grades 7-13, while the United States data come from high school seniors, it's no surprise that overall self-reported drinking levels are lower in Ontario. The reductions, though, are generally similar: a modest reduction in annual drinking, substantial reductions in binge drinking, and reductions close to 50 percent in both daily drinking (at low levels in both countries) and driving after drinking.
    The NHTSA attributes this to alcohol education programs in Canada, (which would still question the necessity of a high drinking age), but has essentially no evidence to validate this claim. It could very well be true, of course, but I'm inclined to believe that vehicular safety improvements in industrialized countries resulted in these overall decreases.

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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    thank you agers, good info for my new position.

    Ps your barred

  10. #100
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    Re: What should the drinking age be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    I've long been dubious of the veracity of that claim, since alcohol-related fatalities among drivers under 21 have fallen by a similar proportion in Canada, despite the fact that the drinking age remains 18 or 19 depending on the region.
    Yeah, you are right. I posted this a while back, but the source of the 70% reduction in drinking fatalities for people 21 and under admited that the increased drinking age can only be attributed to around 16% of the reduction in deaths.

    So even though most of the reductions have been other factors, the increased drinking age still has made some impact.

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