View Poll Results: Are we becoming a nation of incivility?

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    23 63.89%
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Thread: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

  1. #11
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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I sure do, hence my earlier poignant / sarcastic remarks concerning the absurdity of the OP, which comically suggested incivility in politics is a recent phenomenon.



    Yea, the left's incivility towards Bush was just the exception...

    Anyway, that's not what the OP was suggesting. DD was trying to imply that this incivility is a recent phenomenon, which is laughably absurd.



    I don't give a rat's ass what this Luntz guy says.

    Actually what the OP asked was, are we seeing a new rise in incivility, so he in no way suggested that incivility never existed before; rather the level we are seeing now is quite new.


    And it is.


    Sorry, the left's incivility towards Bush existed, but it was the uncommon, and not commmon, behavior. As the Republican pollster's book notes, he is comparing behavior of Americans since 2000 - that covers the Bush era.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Now there's a strawman if I ever saw one!!! There was no claim that there was no incivility while Bush was in office.
    Really, I thought the imlication was extremely clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Are we becoming a nation of incivility?
    Right off the bat. "Are we becomign". Not "have we become". This wording in and of itself implies its currently happening, not something that's been happening for a while. But lets continue on. Its just the first line. Benefit of the doubt....

    First we had the Palin crowd shouting things like "Kill him" in regards to Barack Obama.
    Hmmm, republican on Obama.

    Then we had the folk that showed up at town hall meetings, yelling and disrupting.
    Hmm, republican on democrats.

    Now we have Joe Wilson shouting out during the President's address to Congress
    Hmm, Republican on Obama

    Serena Williams fighting with the line judge and Kayne West interrupting the VMA awards.
    Ah, finally two examples not pointing to Republicans....and their completely non-political.

    That benefits going away.

    Are we seeing a new rise of incivility in America today?
    New Rise. Again, that implication that this is something recent, just becoming.

    Give me a break jack. This is no strawman, its clear and obvious implication from the OP.

    However, ignoring the obvious hyper partisan spin and hackery by the OP lets try and answer the question in a broader sense.

    No, I don't think we're becoming a less civil society. However, I do think with the rise of 24/7 news, hollywood dirt sheets, the internet, and social networking incidents of incivility are far more often focused on. Its always been one of those issues where its easier to have a conversation or stir up bigger interest in someone doing something controversial than someone doing something good and upstanding. The latter gets claps and pats on the back and is quickly ignored, the former can go on for ages.

    So I don't think, as a society, we're necessarily less civil as a whole, but more with the advent of technology the ability to see, and thus the amount of rebroadcasting and rediscussing, incidents of incivility has increased thus giving the impression of a greater amount.

    In regards to Democrats "suddenly" seeing a new rise of incivility, no. Its a simple sypmtom of perception. Many extremely partisan individuals, and even just normally partisan individuals, are naturally either consiously or subconsiously to the extent of things their side does and conversely at times over exaggerate what the other side does. I don't think there's suddenly a huge amount more incivility here as much as its Democrats now being on the opposite end of the spectrum and going "wow, this is sooooo bad". In reality, its not all that different no matter how often the most hyper partisan of them desperately try to rationalize it so they can fit into the "Conservatives bad/evil, Liberals good/pure" bull**** world view.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    We're not becoming incivil, we've been incivil for years. This is nothing new, people just have a short memory.
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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    In regards to Democrats "suddenly" seeing a new rise of incivility, no. Its a simple sypmtom of perception. Many extremely partisan individuals, and even just normally partisan individuals, are naturally either consiously or subconsiously to the extent of things their side does and conversely at times over exaggerate what the other side does. I don't think there's suddenly a huge amount more incivility here as much as its Democrats now being on the opposite end of the spectrum and going "wow, this is sooooo bad". In reality, its not all that different no matter how often the most hyper partisan of them desperately try to rationalize it so they can fit into the "Conservatives bad/evil, Liberals good/pure" bull**** world view.

    Frank Luntz is not a Democrat, he's a Republican.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility



    Nah we are actually becoming more civil


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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    There's always Canada.
    Last edited by laska; 09-15-09 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Frank Luntz is not a Democrat, he's a Republican.
    And is a singular person with a job that puts him in the midst of some of the angriest contingent of Americans, whose insight your taking is from a few lines about a book along with great assumptions as to the reason he reaches said thoughts. I know people like you want to wave a single example of someone that you think is "on the other side" and expect people to just roll over and slovenly agree, going "OMG someone else that thinks relatively like me disagree's with me, I AM DOOOOOOMED" but it doesn't exactly work like that.

    The question has there been some kind of "NEW" rise. No, I don't think so. There's been a steady rise of political incivility for the past 15 years or so, which corresponds greatly, ironically enough with the proliferation of 24/7 news outlets and the internet.

    Time also is generally an enemy of comparisons, as I doubt any two people were in similar positions in 2000 as they were in 2008, had similar experiences, were similiarly interested in politics, and had similar avenues of technology to get the news, speak their views, and get whipped up over things.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And is a singular person with a job that puts him in the midst of some of the angriest contingent of Americans, whose insight your taking is from a few lines about a book along with great assumptions as to the reason he reaches said thoughts. I know people like you want to wave a single example of someone that you think is "on the other side" and expect people to just roll over and slovenly agree, going "OMG someone else that thinks relatively like me disagree's with me, I AM DOOOOOOMED" but it doesn't exactly work like that.

    The question has there been some kind of "NEW" rise. No, I don't think so. There's been a steady rise of political incivility for the past 15 years or so, which corresponds greatly, ironically enough with the proliferation of 24/7 news outlets and the internet.

    Time also is generally an enemy of comparisons, as I doubt any two people were in similar positions in 2000 as they were in 2008, had similar experiences, were similiarly interested in politics, and had similar avenues of technology to get the news, speak their views, and get whipped up over things.
    I'd say you're right, it's been the last 15 yrs or so.
    Adding Frank Luntz was meant to show it wasn't Democrats who were saying it, you're right it's a single person. However, it's a single Republican pollster / consultant who's held in high regard in the Republican establishment.

    Further, I don't think it's just the political realm, the examples from the sports world and the music world this week are 'good' examples, but I think some of it comes from the political realm. When our 'leaders' display disdain for swaths of our society, it infects the society.

    And, I think you're also right that no two people were in similar positions in 2000 as 2008. However, Luntz' observations, as far as I can tell, were about the focus groups, generally. I don't think he said it was just Republicans being angry. Who knows, maybe he did.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post


    Nah we are actually becoming more civil

    hehe .... that's a valid point right there, though.

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    Re: Are we becoming a nation of incivility

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Precisely my point. Incivility has been part and parcel of American politics long before Obama entered office. It's hardly a recent phenomenon, as the OP would have you believe.
    but it IS much worse now, imo.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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