I Don't Know
Yeah, the reason we're in Iraq is oil.
Since when is energy not worth waring over?
Unless one considers the term Iraq to be Saddam or the Baithist power structure that served him, I do not think we were at war with Iraq.
Certainly the majority of Iraqis who hated Saddam, that would be Shia and Kurds, would not say so.
This is where people criticize and point out the Tali-Bans or the Saddam Husseins of the world who embrace our help and aid and then turn on us later. But in the end, none of the people we have ever helped have ever caused us great trouble. They have never been able to use any equipment effectively against us and they have certainly not been able to go toe to toe with us on any training combative level.
The Brits have trained some counter insurgency methods to Libyans, but they have not trained them in the art of effective "Combined Arms" or efffective small leadership training on the battle field. They are as effective at big and small size warfare as the Iraqis or the Tali-Ban were. When militaries go up against each other, one of the most and constant overlooked ingredient in history is culture. The British and the Americans have a military culture as strong as our culture for peace. It's a careful balance that few in history have been able to create. These nation's that have benefitted from our assistance in a military manner will never be a threat to us.
I have another comment when it comes to tribe....
This may offend many, many people but history's longest lasting "peaces" have only come after enough slaughter has gone on. Even one of Europe's longest lasting peaces in history has occured between the years of 1945 to the present. These tribes in the Middle East are no different. But we are working against human nature when it comes to this region. Some (Ralph Peters, Bernard Lewis, etc.) have even commented that we are on the wrong side of history. Since WWII, we have struggled to maintain the "peace" in this region and introduce a sense of "stability" at any cost (even in terms of our own values) and no matter who it hurt. These tribes have been held in check only temporarily. Removing the dictator in Iraq shows us exactly what this region is itching to do. And sooner or later it may come down to us simply backing off and allowing them to sort out their own messes no matter how long the oil stops flowing or how much Muslim blood stains the desert.
And this isn't just a Middle Eastern phenomena. In Bosnia, we are engaged in peacekeeping missions to keep the tribes seperated. This is a temporary delay of tribal violence. It was this region that sparked off World War I. It was this region that held the only nation in Europe not to have its borders redrawn after World War II (Yugoslavia). It was this region that saw America force the UN out and drag NATO in to introduce a measure of control (however temporary) until borders could get established.
I bring up this region outside of the Middle East to demonstrate the world we are currently living in and what will shape our future wars. We are in a very bizarre age. Our technology and our social equalities in the West are in conflict with what we see in the backwards territories where tribe is steering entire regions. Mix that tribe with intense religion and it's the "Crusades-meets-the-21st-century." Imagine the Crusades with nuclear weapons. You think Christians or Muslims would have refrained from using the best weapon available? Doesn't "God" deserve it?
Today's tribes have inherited bad borders imagined and created by Kings, Czars, and Kaisers. They slashed lines across maps out of greed. Mountain ranges and rivers acted as guides. Nobody cared about the tribes. People who hated each other for centuries were forced to live together under threat of outside violence. People who had lived together peacefully for centuries were all of sudden ripped apart and seperated. Today, these borders have introduced a sense of nationalism where tribes are screaming ownership over same territories. If one were to draw a circle around the Kurds, one would see a chunk of eastern Syria, southern Turkey, western Iran, and northern Iraq form into one of the largest nations in the region. Iraq is divided amongst tribes. Pakistan is simply a mess. As is Afghanistan. Pakistan and India feud over territory that shouoldn't belong to either one, but to the tribe that is divided in half by the bad border that divides it. But our western idea of borders is that they don't change and must remain intact no matter what violence it pushes forward.
People have this idea that the Middle East is a mess because of the Shah of Iran or Saudi support. Do they really think any Sunni Arab cares about any Shia or Persian? Or that any Persian cares that we get our oil from the Sauds? Do they even consider the fact that no terrorist organization places any effort in lobbying or protesting their governments publicly, but prefer to blame and war against the "foriegn devil?" The truth is that history is the proof. The Soviets blatanlty prescribed oppression and religious persecution in the Muslim lands for centuries. As late as WWII, they refused to leave Iran and Turkey (starting the Cold War) and it took us to force them out. through diplomacy. In the Caucasus, Muslims (hundreds of millions of Muslims) were persecuted and denied religious freedoms during the Cold War. But America is hated? We are the scapegoat. We are the excuse. Because without us...they have themselves (and God?) to blame.
Today's world is a mess because of bad borders and tribal frustration. Mix God into it and the entire struggle becomes convoluted, confusing, and vastly more deadlier.
And what do our critics state even to this day? The simple crap they heard from their favorite ignorant commentator on TV or their favorite politician who is actually more concerned with elections, personal paychecks, and media attention than understanding his world outside our natural borders.
You are missing the point. We are not fighting a war against Iraq. Fighting in Iraq does not mean fighting against Iraq.So what exactly are our Soliders fighting over there if it is not a WAR?
We Must Stop troops from fighting in Iraq and worried more about Afghanistan so we can capture Osama or if we don't then he will have more power.
Last edited by jr602az; 09-13-09 at 03:52 PM.
Oh my God you are so clueless. I don't even want to begin explaining things to you. At the start of the war in Iraq we were fighting against the Iraqi government (which we overthrew) but now we are not fighting them. We set up a new government there. We are fighting terrorists there, not Iraq itself. We have actually been working WITH the new Iraqi government.Then why hell are there so many Thousands of people dieing in Iraq for no f****** Reason. WHY!!! No one knows or maybe but its sure is stupid to know why.
There have been around 4,500 american deaths since the start of the war. Thousands have DIED, but thousands aren't CURRENTLY dying in Iraq. You have your timeline mixed up I presume.