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Would you utilize the public option?

Will you utilize the public healthcare option?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 26.7%
  • No

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 14 31.1%

  • Total voters
    45
why? government employees are worse. At least with a profit-oriented insurance company, you can protest from your wallet ever try this ??without fear of some "government-agents" busting down your door for "not following the law".
There is also a fear that Martians will be following these "government agents".
There are people in government who do over re-act...But no-one in the private sector ever over reacts.:spin:
Interesting, thus far, the vote is a tie, with 7 "other".
 
I do not want ANYONE other than my healthcare provider deciding what I can or cannot do and what treatment I can or cannot have.


I'll say it again, I do not want ANYONE other than my healthcare provider deciding what I can or cannot do and what treatment I can or cannot have. That includes the bureaucrats at private insurance companies.
No one ever does. They only decide what they will or won't COVER. No one prevents you from actually having a procedure done. YET.

But, giving the government control of my health care gives them a vested financial interest in controlling my behavior as it relates to my health. That, my friend, is control I will not give them freely. No way in hell. Insurance companies do not have that ability. The government does.
 
No one ever does. They only decide what they will or won't COVER. No one prevents you from actually having a procedure done. YET.

But, giving the government control of my health care gives them a vested financial interest in controlling my behavior as it relates to my health. That, my friend, is control I will not give them freely. No way in hell. Insurance companies do not have that ability. The government does.

No, they would not. You could still have the procedure you want...you'd just pay out of pocket for it. Similar to what you would do with insurance companies. What I do not want is either telling me whether or not I can use benefits that I have in my package if my physician states that the treatment is medically necessary. This happens with regularity. I pay for my health insurance. Do not tell me if I can use it or not if my doctor says I need it.
 
Cassandra, I suggest that you google the original debate and cost estimates when Medicare was farcically foisted onto the American public and get back to me.

Do the same with Social Security.

What you will find was a gross UNDER-estimation of the ACTUAL costs and the FACT that these programs grew far out of proportion to the original promises made and stand at the brink of a funding disaster as a result of the gross mismanagement of these programs by the very Government Libruls argue we should now suddenly trust?

It is equally fascinating that Libruls argue that we should TRUST the current administrations farcical arguments about cost savings when it is the same one that has spent us into a $1.6 trillion deficit with no end in sight and not one honest debate as to who is going to pay for all of this largess; the same administration that told us that by passing a pork laden stimulus bill we would create 5 million high paying good jobs.

The ONLY people who can make such arguments are those who are ignorant of the facts, or those willfully wallowing in denial.

The irony here is that the Libruls making these arguments are the same ones who ranted for 8 years how we should not trust government and that it was the government that was attempting to take away our Liberties. Suddenly, with Democrats in charge the government has become more trustworthy than any entity in the land. :doh

FACT: claiming that a public option run health care bill will not add one dime to the deficit and will not result in massive tax increases is a LIE plain and simple.

Now anyone with a modicum of curiosity would ask; why would Government officials and Democrat politicians lie to us about such a program?
Thanks for all the effort but you did not respond to the fairly simple point I made. You just changed the subject.
 
That is the laughable part of your illusion; that the public option would compare favorably with a private insurance plan or that the effort of Democrats is to do away with private for profit insurance and health entities in the future once they can pass this 1,000 page attempt to obfuscate the obvious.



But of course this is nothing more than empty hyperbolic rhetoric with no facts to support it.
I can't provide the data if you are unable to point out which bits you don't understand
Again it begs the question; why do supporters of Government takeovers of our economy lie and distort to make their case? Could it be because there are no facts and the historic record doesn't support their political positions?
Again this scatter shot does nothing to enlighten. I get it- you mistrust government.

There are 3 issues to address in U.S. health care.
1) Americans are too unhealthy

2) The cost of care ( insurance aside) has become too expensive

3) The "system" is structurally inefficient, a drag on the economy with embedded incentives that increase costs and leave people uninsured.

I believe that the plan, now being considered in Congress, is an inadequate baby step that barely addresses some of the issues in #3. I would much prefer a system like that of France's. But the private insurance system has already locked many people( like my family) out of the system so I'll take the public plan- gladly.
 
No, they would not. You could still have the procedure you want...you'd just pay out of pocket for it. Similar to what you would do with insurance companies. What I do not want is either telling me whether or not I can use benefits that I have in my package if my physician states that the treatment is medically necessary. This happens with regularity. I pay for my health insurance. Do not tell me if I can use it or not if my doctor says I need it.

I find the entire conversation surreal! Don't you?
Medicare has financial difficulties because gov't has made too little effort to question physicians judgment about expensive tests and fraudulent billing. Deny care??- Not that I have noticed! Yet, in the same breath people argue that Medicare is gonna kill your grandma by denying care AND that it costs too much. PHEW! Wait till the private insurers get their paws on Grandma: Grandma is going to be outsourced to Mexico....But maybe that is a good thing: warm climate, caring people, plenty of cheap pharmaceuticals.

Personally, and I do take it personally, I don't understand why so many people, here, don't want people like me to have health insurance. Its a mystery.
 
No, they would not. You could still have the procedure you want...you'd just pay out of pocket for it. Similar to what you would do with insurance companies. What I do not want is either telling me whether or not I can use benefits that I have in my package if my physician states that the treatment is medically necessary. This happens with regularity. I pay for my health insurance. Do not tell me if I can use it or not if my doctor says I need it.

I'm not sure how this is any different than what I've already said... :confused:

I find the entire conversation surreal! Don't you?
Medicare has financial difficulties because gov't has made too little effort to question physicians judgment about expensive tests and fraudulent billing. Deny care??- Not that I have noticed! Yet, in the same breath people argue that Medicare is gonna kill your grandma by denying care AND that it costs too much. PHEW! Wait till the private insurers get their paws on Grandma: Grandma is going to be outsourced to Mexico....But maybe that is a good thing: warm climate, caring people, plenty of cheap pharmaceuticals.

Personally, and I do take it personally, I don't understand why so many people, here, don't want people like me to have health insurance. Its a mystery.

There's not anyone who "doesn't want people like [you] to have insurance." At worst, we just don't care. At best, we don't want to pay for it for you.

Personally, I don't care if you have insurance or not. It's not that I'm callous, I just don't know you and don't think about you. Your well being is your responsibility.

What I do care about is how much of my money is being taken from my checks to pay for people who refuse to be responsible for themselves. I have no issue with temporary public assistance, but my experiences have shown that a great many people do not utilize public options for temporary situations. They utilize them for a way of life and that I do not wish to subsidize with my money. I would much, MUCH rather I get to keep my own money that *I* have earned and use it to help those I personally choose to help.

And yet again, I state that I have absolutely no issue with a public option that I can opt out of using AND opt out of paying for. I do not care if the government wants to start running their own insurance agency, as long as I don't have to pay for it and I don't have to use it. AND, as long as they mind their own business and don't put legal restrictions on the general public for whatever they deem to be "unhealthy".
 
Personally, I don't care if you have insurance or not. It's not that I'm callous, I just don't know you and don't think about you. Your well being is your responsibility.
no kidding?
What I do care about is how much of my money is being taken from my checks to pay for people who refuse to be responsible for themselves. I have no issue with temporary public assistance, but my experiences have shown that a great many people do not utilize public options for temporary situations. They utilize them for a way of life and that I do not wish to subsidize with my money. I would much, MUCH rather I get to keep my own money that *I* have earned and use it to help those I personally choose to help.

And yet again, I state that I have absolutely no issue with a public option that I can opt out of using AND opt out of paying for. I do not care if the government wants to start running their own insurance agency, as long as I don't have to pay for it and I don't have to use it. AND, as long as they mind their own business and don't put legal restrictions on the general public for whatever they deem to be "unhealthy".

People, like you, are so focused on not paying for the health care of others that you seem to forget the fact that the system is based on shifting costs. You are already paying for the health insurance of every teacher, policeman, town clerk, politician, old person, poor person, fat person, disabled person...and the list goes on. The only reason the system functions, at all, is that so many people have been bought off at someone else's expense that the level of outrage has been reduced to the entrepeneurial class- the self-employed and small business person. No, I don't expect anyone to care about me PERSONALLY. I am just speaking for every farmer, fisherman, small retailer, craftsman, restaurant owner ,etc., you ever encountered. I don't understand why anyone would prefer to spend 30 cents of every dollar to line the pockets of some C.E.O rather than give the farmer down the road a shot at affordable insurance...that is, a non profit large pool H. insurance plan.
In fact, if you read my posts, I am not asking for charity- I am asking to be treated the same way all of the corporate serfs are treated- as part of a LARGE Risk POOL. How many ways do I have to say this for it to sink in??? People who are self-employed or manage small business, anyone who seeks insurance in the individual market is unfairly skr*wed and we need a public option to substitute for the fact that for-profit H.Insurance does not really function.
 
Would you like to retract your false assertion ?

Please point out what assertion I made. I'll give you a hint, Voidwar, because I know you have difficulty with terminology. I didn't make one.

Are you prepared to clarify your terms, or are you still dancing?
 
I'm not sure how this is any different than what I've already said... :confused:

You seemed to be saying that the government would have more control over your health and health care than insurance companies...and what I'm saying is that this would be no different than what insurance companies already have. To me, neither is acceptable.
 
no kidding?


People, like you, are so focused on not paying for the health care of others that you seem to forget the fact that the system is based on shifting costs. You are already paying for the health insurance of every teacher, policeman, town clerk, politician, old person, poor person, fat person, disabled person...and the list goes on. The only reason the system functions, at all, is that so many people have been bought off at someone else's expense that the level of outrage has been reduced to the entrepeneurial class- the self-employed and small business person. No, I don't expect anyone to care about me PERSONALLY. I am just speaking for every farmer, fisherman, small retailer, craftsman, restaurant owner ,etc., you ever encountered. I don't understand why anyone would prefer to spend 30 cents of every dollar to line the pockets of some C.E.O rather than give the farmer down the road a shot at affordable insurance...that is, a non profit large pool H. insurance plan.
In fact, if you read my posts, I am not asking for charity- I am asking to be treated the same way all of the corporate serfs are treated- as part of a LARGE Risk POOL. How many ways do I have to say this for it to sink in??? People who are self-employed or manage small business, anyone who seeks insurance in the individual market is unfairly skr*wed and we need a public option to substitute for the fact that for-profit H.Insurance does not really function.

You're speaking for me when you say you're speaking for all those you claim to. And I disagree with what you're saying on my behalf.

I also disagree with my money paying for anyone's healthcare except those I CHOOSE to pay for.

I would like for my money to pay for MY healthcare and those I love.

I would also like for people not to think that they're entitled to my money just because I have it.
 
You seemed to be saying that the government would have more control over your health and health care than insurance companies...and what I'm saying is that this would be no different than what insurance companies already have. To me, neither is acceptable.

They would have more control. They can make laws, ban food, drink and/or mandate certain "healthy" activities. When they have a vested financial interest in the public health, then they have a financial incentive to make sure we don't do "bad things" to ourselves. Insurance companies cannot do that.
 
You're speaking for me when you say you're speaking for all those you claim to. And I disagree with what you're saying on my behalf.
You disagree with what? You would rather pay twice as much as someone who works for a large corporation? And be priced out of the market if you have a health problem ?
I also disagree with my money paying for anyone's healthcare except those I CHOOSE to pay for.
So you keep saying but it is a meaningless statement- that is how the system functions unless you are self-pay. Are you uninsured? Then, only then, you are paying for yourself alone...at a premium.
They would have more control. They can make laws, ban food, drink and/or mandate certain "healthy" activities. When they have a vested financial interest in the public health, then they have a financial incentive to make sure we don't do "bad things" to ourselves. Insurance companies cannot do that.
NO. Corporations can and do, reward people with healthy habits and penalize people with unhealthy habits. They can and do deny health insurance to people for all kinds of reasons.

Meanwhile, you are the guy who does not want to pay for H.C. for anyone but yourself. Why should MY health insurance premiums (or yours) reflect the health care costs of all the fat couch potatoes that clog the H.C. system? Gov't will never ban junk food but isn't it about time they stop subsidizing the consumption of toxic material?
 
The condescension was quite on target and just a response to your own nastiness. If you do not like it, I make two suggestions: 1) Post civilly and you will get the same in response; 2) Demonstrate some understanding of the topic being discussed and respond in context.

No, your vapid arrogance and condescension are more what one comes to expect from someone who has absolutely no clue of what it is they are attempting to debate. What typically happens when one debates you is that you then engage in personal attacks and obfuscations and eventually enter in the circle of futility by constantly making new uninformed statements eventually circling back to the original uninformed statement.

Nothing in my initial remarks were nasty; they were seeking to debate the merits of your silly notions that denying benefits is the same as a breach of contract.

I am a direct reflection of the nastiness, arrogance and condescension you spew whenever your nonsensical arguments are exposed for what they are; uninformed.

Your agenda is wha all extreme rightwing hyperpartisans have. Only speak in misrepresentations, foolish generalizations, inaccurate fear mongering, out of context comments, and outright dishonesty. Unless you have changed, and this thread seems to show that you haven't, your posts go along with your agenda.

Your nonsensical perceptions aside, wow trite and amusing that you would now engage in empty headed hyperbolic demagoguery to avoid the fact that you are an uninformed partisan hack who couldn’t debate without becoming uncivil and projecting your complete lack of civility onto others.

I would love to have you honestly show where I have not been factual, honest and inaccurate in any of my statements without your typical uncivil arrogance and condescension.

The ONLY ones being dishonest in this debate are you and your pals on the forum suggesting that anyone who doesn’t agree with your laughable positions is nothing more than an extreme rightwing hyper partisan.

Just one time it would be nice to see you have an honest coherent debate instead of engaging into your typical playground uninformed demagoguery.

And that's not what we are talking about.

It is definitely what we are debating and your attempts to claim that we can only debate points that you wish to are beyond absurd, they are childish and immature.

I know it's hard, but try to stay on topic.

See above.

The notion that you can lecture anyone on the dealings with insurance companies is laughable at best.

The notion that you can be some expert on tort law and how economics actually work is laughable and the notion that your “self proclaimed” expertise on insurance has anything to do with this debate is ironic.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? If this occurs, there is an appeal process that is in ALL insurance company agreements if you have a dispute. Once this process is exhausted (and there are usually 4-5 levels), then you can go the legal route. Same as with Medicare.

So, as I said, these two scenarios are identical.

I absolutely know what I am talking about and have clearly illustrated that it happens to be you who are obfuscating, projecting, lacking honesty and integrity and engaging in hyperbolic demagoguery.

Your statements above don’t change what we are saying; if you have a dispute with a private insurance company, you can seek remedy within our courts. If you have this same issue with a PUBLICLY run healthcare system, there will be none. This is the point Void and I were trying to make and which you so desperately attempted to avoid with your nonsensical blather about breaches and denial of coverage being one and the same; which they are not.

In addition, we attempted to explain that at least with competition and private markets there is a choice and if a company is not properly serving its customers or acting in an illegal manner, they will eventually go out of business, be bought up by companies that operate more efficiently, you will still have a CHOICE as to where you go and with competition, costs will go down and stay competitive.

Government run programs do not provide that option; you will no longer have a choice, costs will skyrocket and they will operate very inefficiently resulting in less choices, long waiting lists and fewer doctors and nurses to treat patients not to mention the loss of research and development that results in technological breakthroughs.

Those are FACTS based on the data available and historic record.

Get back to us when you have some basic understanding of how insurance companies operate. When you do, perhaps then you can add substance to this discussion.

Get back to me when you can have an HONEST debate dealing with the FACTS and not engage in your typical hyper emotional hyperbolic blather and uninformed notions about the legal system, economics and your typical lack of substance.
 
No, your vapid arrogance and condescension are more what one comes to expect from someone who has absolutely no clue of what it is they are attempting to debate. What typically happens when one debates you is that you then engage in personal attacks and obfuscations and eventually enter in the circle of futility by constantly making new uninformed statements eventually circling back to the original uninformed statement.

Nothing in my initial remarks were nasty; they were seeking to debate the merits of your silly notions that denying benefits is the same as a breach of contract.

I am a direct reflection of the nastiness, arrogance and condescension you spew whenever your nonsensical arguments are exposed for what they are; uninformed.

You always post in an arrogant, condescending, attacking tone, especially when you have no idea what you are discussing...which is most of the time. Then you whine when you get it right back at you. You don't like it? Don't do it. I've told you this for a long time, but you seem to be unable to understand this rather simple concept. You want to continue to post like a jerk, you will get it right back. One things I will NOT do, however, is match your uninformed nonsense. I will continue to try to educate you.



Your nonsensical perceptions aside, wow trite and amusing that you would now engage in empty headed hyperbolic demagoguery to avoid the fact that you are an uninformed partisan hack who couldn’t debate without becoming uncivil and projecting your complete lack of civility onto others.

I would love to have you honestly show where I have not been factual, honest and inaccurate in any of my statements without your typical uncivil arrogance and condescension.

The ONLY ones being dishonest in this debate are you and your pals on the forum suggesting that anyone who doesn’t agree with your laughable positions is nothing more than an extreme rightwing hyper partisan.

Just one time it would be nice to see you have an honest coherent debate instead of engaging into your typical playground uninformed demagoguery.

You post like an extreme rightwing partisan hack and an uninformed one at that. It would be nice if just once you could debate coherently without tossing in all of the partisan hack rubbish that you throw in each and every post you make, and actually make few accurate statements. Complete nonsense all of it. And, as usual, when you get what you give, you whine.

Have you had enough of this crap, TD? Are you prepared to actually debate like a civil human being, for once?

It is definitely what we are debating and your attempts to claim that we can only debate points that you wish to are beyond absurd, they are childish and immature.

No, it's not. You want to change the goalposts because you've got nothing on the topic. I understand that. But you try to change them, I will call you on it. Don't like it? Don't change them.



See above.

See above.



The notion that you can be some expert on tort law and how economics actually work is laughable and the notion that your “self proclaimed” expertise on insurance has anything to do with this debate is ironic.

The notion that you can add any pertinent information to the topic at hand is laughable and the notion that you have any expertise on dealing with insurance companies is foolish.

See how this works? You'll get what you give. Stop whining and debate the topic if you actually have anything of substance to add.



I absolutely know what I am talking about and have clearly illustrated that it happens to be you who are obfuscating, projecting, lacking honesty and integrity and engaging in hyperbolic demagoguery.

Your statements above don’t change what we are saying; if you have a dispute with a private insurance company, you can seek remedy within our courts. If you have this same issue with a PUBLICLY run healthcare system, there will be none. This is the point Void and I were trying to make and which you so desperately attempted to avoid with your nonsensical blather about breaches and denial of coverage being one and the same; which they are not.

This is nonsense, and I have already explained why. There is a procedure if you have an issue with how either private or public insurance handles the releasing of your benefits. Both are identical. Suing a government agency in these cases is as allowable as suing an insurance company. Like I said, you do not know what you are talking about.

In addition, we attempted to explain that at least with competition and private markets there is a choice and if a company is not properly serving its customers or acting in an illegal manner, they will eventually go out of business, be bought up by companies that operate more efficiently, you will still have a CHOICE as to where you go and with competition, costs will go down and stay competitive.

Government run programs do not provide that option; you will no longer have a choice, costs will skyrocket and they will operate very inefficiently resulting in less choices, long waiting lists and fewer doctors and nurses to treat patients not to mention the loss of research and development that results in technological breakthroughs.

Those are FACTS based on the data available and historic record.

Facts are, this is not what we are discussing, nor is it the proposal on the table. This is you changing the goalposts. Start another thread, but don't pollute this one with your foolishness.

[quoteGet back to me when you can have an HONEST debate dealing with the FACTS and not engage in your typical hyper emotional hyperbolic blather and uninformed notions about the legal system, economics and your typical lack of substance.[/QUOTE]

Get back to me when you actually have some accurate information and have decided to debate civilly and without your usual nastiness or derailing tactics. Perhaps then we can discuss the issue at hand.
 
Again this scatter shot does nothing to enlighten. I get it- you mistrust government.

I mistrust Government run programs based on their record. I am constantly amazed that suddenly someone like you thinks that Government will manage 1/5 of the US economy better than the private markets and at a lower cost. There is not one single shred of evidence to support this assumption.

There are 3 issues to address in U.S. health care.
1) Americans are too unhealthy

The FACT that many Americans are not healthy has ZERO to do with our health system. Understanding this is a first step to honest intellectual debate.

Americans are not healthy because of their own behavior/habits; the best healthcare system in the world won’t make this fact any different.


2) The cost of care ( insurance aside) has become too expensive

Claiming that healthcare is expensive in a vacuum of comparative analysis is pretty useless.

Yes, behind a mortgage, your car and insurance payments and groceries, healthcare is probably the fourth or fifth highest expense in your budget. But the notion that Government will bring down the costs cannot be supported by any facts or historic data.


3) The "system" is structurally inefficient, a drag on the economy with embedded incentives that increase costs and leave people uninsured.

This is nothing more than a claim. But the notion that a Government that cannot manage its own budget, prevent aliens from flooding into our borders and with a history of expensive mismanaged policies will now suddenly operate so efficient that the savings will pay for the program requires willful denial beyond the pale.

Please name for me one Government program that was ever successful and well managed with credible links to support such a contention; just one.

The most laughable part of such claims is the notion that people are uninsured because the Government hasn’t done anything.

I believe that the plan, now being considered in Congress, is an inadequate baby step that barely addresses some of the issues in #3. I would much prefer a system like that of France's. But the private insurance system has already locked many people( like my family) out of the system so I'll take the public plan- gladly.

Frances system is extremely expensive and that nation is struggling with the reality that they are rapidly running out of funds and are hard pressed to further tax an already overburdened tax payer.

Like most countries, France faces problems of rising costs of prescription medication, increasing unemployment, and a large aging population.[11]
Expenses related to the healthcare system in France represented 10.5% of the country's GDP and 15.4% of its public expenditures. In 2004, 78.4% of these expenses were paid for by the state.


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_healthcare_system]Health Care in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

That's not to say the French have solved all health-care riddles. Like every other nation, France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation. That has led to some hefty tax hikes, and France is now considering U.S.-style health-maintenance organization tactics to rein in costs. Still, some 65% of French citizens express satisfaction with their system, compared with 40% of U.S. residents. And France spends just 10.7% of its gross domestic product on health care, while the U.S. lays out 16%, more than any other nation.

So far France has been able to hold down the burden on patients through a combination of price controls and increased government spending, but the latter effort has led to higher taxes for both employers and workers. In 1990, 7% of health-care expenditures were financed out of general revenue taxes, and the rest came from mandatory payroll taxes. By 2003, the general revenue figure had grown to 40%, and it's still not enough. The French national insurance system has been running constant deficits since 1985 and has ballooned to $13.5 billion.


The French Lesson In Health Care

Here are some more facts to digest:

Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers, and academics beat the drum for a far larger government role in health care. Much of the public assumes that their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. Before we turn to government as the solution, however, we should consider some unheralded facts about America’s health care system.

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and care for the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - Here’s a Second Opinion
 
Just as a point of reference, how many times have "government-agents" come knocking down your door this week? Or ever? Never? Not once? Oh alright then.

You'll notice that he qualified his statement with "breaking the law", meaning, in the event that one does "break the law" government agents will break down your door...is that clear enough for you?
 
Please point out what assertion I made. I'll give you a hint, Voidwar, because I know you have difficulty with terminology. I didn't make one.

Are you prepared to clarify your terms, or are you still dancing?

You need to reread the post.

ObviousChild is the one it was directed to.

Your post was quoted as proof for Obvious Child, that I questioned your assertion.

YOU are the dancer Captain Courtesy.

You have been running from my question since page two and anyone literate and interested knows it.
 
I'll give you a hint, Voidwar, because I know you have difficulty with terminology.

I have zero problems with terminology, and because of that, not only do I not need to use underhanded practices like terminology substitution, , , I catch and expose the use of this dishonest tactic every time it is used against me. Just like where Captain Courtesy tried it on page two. . . .

Your post:
I work with insurance companies daily. Sad to say I would trust the government before I would trust an insurance company.

My post:
And to whom would one appeal a breached contract ?

Your attempt at terminology substitution :
When one appeals a denial of benefits with the insurance company, one would appeal to the insurance company. When one would appeal a denial of benefits with a public option, one would appeal to the agency in charge of the public option...similar to appealing to Medicare, now.

I think this makes it pretty evident who has difficulty with terminology.

It is Captain Courtesy who cannot answer the question he was asked on page two, and has had to resort to underhanded practices like terminology substitution
 
no because that is the plan get them addicted
 
You want to change the goalposts

You mean like you try to change the goalposts right here ? ? ?

When one appeals a denial of benefits with the insurance company, one would appeal to the insurance company. When one would appeal a denial of benefits with a public option, one would appeal to the agency in charge of the public option...similar to appealing to Medicare, now.
 
You always post in an arrogant, condescending, attacking tone, especially when you have no idea what you are discussing...which is most of the time. Then you whine when you get it right back at you. You don't like it? Don't do it. I've told you this for a long time, but you seem to be unable to understand this rather simple concept. You want to continue to post like a jerk, you will get it right back. One things I will NOT do, however, is match your uninformed nonsense. I will continue to try to educate you.

You are free to point out what was arrogant and attacking or even partisan in my initial post to you:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/56108-would-you-utilize-public-option-5.html#post1058251835

How about my second post to you?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/56108-would-you-utilize-public-option-7.html#post1058251910

Which garnered this arrogant remark:

I'll gladly discuss this with you when you address the issue that I was presenting, which was NOT costs. If you want to have a monologue about costs, which was NOT what I addressed, be my guest, but I have no idea who you are talking to.

It is obvious that your desperate attempts to avoid substance and accuse others of the very tactics you use is nothing more than an attempt to cover up the fact that it is you who plays the rabid partisan in these debates with your selective outrage.

You post like an extreme rightwing partisan hack and an uninformed one at that. It would be nice if just once you could debate coherently without tossing in all of the partisan hack rubbish that you throw in each and every post you make, and actually make few accurate statements. Complete nonsense all of it. And, as usual, when you get what you give, you whine.

Really; why don’t you be more specific and share with me the exact “extreme rightwing partisan hack rubbish” comments that I made in this thread?

This should be truly amusing to see your personal definition of what “extreme rightwing partisan hack rubbish” means. You make me laugh with your hyper emotional nonsensical babble about what constitutes “extreme rightwing partisan hack rubbish.”

Have you had enough of this crap, TD? Are you prepared to actually debate like a civil human being, for once?

You’re the one engaging in the tactic of personal demagoguery, not I. But I look forward to a more coherent response to the above questions for you.


No, it's not. You want to change the goalposts because you've got nothing on the topic. I understand that. But you try to change them, I will call you on it. Don't like it? Don't change them.

No one is changing any goalposts except for you desperate attempts to suggest that the debate is what you say it should be.

Again, you are welcome to illustrate where my comments wander off topic in a debate on the “public option.” It will be almost as amusing as your attempts to define what is meant by “extreme rightwing partisan hack rubbish.”


The notion that you can add any pertinent information to the topic at hand is laughable and the notion that you have any expertise on dealing with insurance companies is foolish.

Once again what we have here is another “because you say so.” Alas, the world doesn’t revolve around your personal biases and hypocrisy now does it Captain?

See how this works? You'll get what you give. Stop whining and debate the topic if you actually have anything of substance to add.

Once again, the one engaging in the tactic of personal attacks and partisan hackery happens to be you. But then how could you notice your own uninformed hackery when you are so blinded by your own arrogance and condescension?


This is nonsense, and I have already explained why. There is a procedure if you have an issue with how either private or public insurance handles the releasing of your benefits. Both are identical. Suing a government agency in these cases is as allowable as suing an insurance company. Like I said, you do not know what you are talking about.

I challenge you to find anyone with a modicum of intelligence to suggest that denial of coverage is the same as breach of contract.

Please, find someone coherent who knows the law. This argument is laughable at best, but is more the realm of juvenile fantasy.


Facts are, this is not what we are discussing, nor is it the proposal on the table. This is you changing the goalposts. Start another thread, but don't pollute this one with your foolishness.

I am sorry, but again your would be wrong and just because you desperately wish to avoid your own erroneous conclusions doesn’t change the fact that you have no clue what this debate is about and what constitutes a breach of contract.

Get back to me when you actually have some accurate information and have decided to debate civilly and without your usual nastiness or derailing tactics. Perhaps then we can discuss the issue at hand.

Get back to me when you can comprehend how silly you look claiming that a denial of benefits is the same as a breach of contract, that any of my comments are an example of “extreme rightwing partisan hack rubbish” and how my arguments are unrelated to the thread OP.

I have to laugh at your desperate attempts to bait and troll; they are about as pathetic as your attempts to distinguish a denial of benefits from what constitutes a breach of contract.

:2wave:
 
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