Would you utilize the public option?

Re: Lots and lots of questions, but mine was FIRST

CaptainCourtesy said:

People reading this thread are watching you do what you always do: avoiding the issue and avoiding clarifying your terms...probably because you know you can't.

So, are you going to indicate what you meant by "breaching the contract" since you didn't like my answer or are you going to continue to avoid the issue?

Click to expand...

Pretty much. My first indication after reading 3 pages was Voidwar's up to his same old garbage. I agree he did not answer anything. But that's pretty much normal for him. I'm surprised you even bothered to respond to him.

Truth Detector said:

When one appeals the denial of benefits with the insurance companies and is not satisfied they have the option of our court systems.

Click to expand...

Want to give numbers as to how well that goes? :rofl

I frankly don't see the difference between having an insurance criteria that delays constantly until you're dead or some government official decide you die. Either way, the doctor isn't involved and you're screwed. People act as if insurance deciding when you die is really any better. It's not.

Re: Lots and lots of questions, but mine was FIRST

CaptainCourtesy said:

if you didn't like my terminology substitution...which is consistent when dealing with insurance companies, then why don't you just clarify what you mean? It would be real easy to do that, Voidwar. Why all the avoidance?

Click to expand...

So you just admitted to terminology substitution, and then you have the nerve to accuse ME of avoidance ?

Re: Stomped You Flatter than Unborn Origami

Voidwar said:

You didn't give an answer, and you know it.

You substituted terminology to make up your own question, and then answered that.



YOU are the one avoiding the issue, as I have proven over and over with the direct quotes.

Click to expand...

You have done nothing of the sort. I answered your question. Either you didn't like my answer, or you meant something different. I asked for clarification and you have refused to give it. I wonder why that would be. :roll:

Re: Lots and lots of questions, but mine was FIRST

Voidwar said:

So you just admitted to terminology substitution, and then you have the nerve to accuse ME of avoidance ?

Click to expand...

You do understand that two things can mean the same thing, right? When an insurance company refuses to honor benefits that are in one's package, they are breaching the contract. See, Voidwar, all your dancing is for nothing. For me, these two concepts are identical. If you meant something else, say it. If not, keep posturing and avoiding.

Re: Lots and lots of questions, but mine was FIRST

obvious Child said:

I agree he did not answer anything.

Click to expand...

I asked the question. The onus was on CC to answer.

Then he started with his terminology substitution and avoidance.

You just don't like me OC, because I have cleaned your clock before.

Are these the right color to go with CC's uniform ?

Re: Stomped You Flatter than Unborn Origami

CaptainCourtesy said:

I answered your question.

Click to expand...

A bald faced lie.

The truth is : you made up your own question, using terminology substitution, and answered that.

So, umm, what DO you mean by breach of contract, Void?

Do you need a set too ?

Can't clarify your terms, can you Voidwar? You remember what happened last time, I guess. Come on, Voidwar, real simple question...if my terminology is NOT what you meant, what do you mean by "breach of contract"? Please give examples so we understand what you mean,

CaptainCourtesy said:

Can't clarify your terms, can you Voidwar?

Click to expand...

Can't answer the question you were asked first, can you, self-admitted terminology substituter ?

Voidwar said:

Do you need a set too ?

Click to expand...

Just offering you a chance to explain your point further. Obviously you have some reason for not wanting to explain your position. Your dear readers can only guess as to why you would choose to avoid a straightforward question.
Carry on. Don't mind me.

Voidwar said:

Can't answer the question you were asked first, can you, self-admitted terminology substituter ?

Click to expand...

Answered. Either you didn't like the answer, or you meant something different. So, tell us what you meant? Why avoid a simple request such as this? Do you not know what you meant?

Simon W. Moon said:

Just offering you a chance to explain your point further.

Click to expand...

Oh really ?
If you'd like to jump into the thread and offer things, you can offer Captain Courtesy the chance to answer the original question he was asked, without resorting to the underhanded tactic of terminology substitution.

Simon W. Moon said:

Obviously you have some reason for not wanting to explain your position.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. What is OBVIOUS is that CC will do anything, for 5 pages, to avoid answering the original question as phrased.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Deal with Medicare. Then deal with Oxford. When you do both, you'll understand.

Click to expand...

Medicare is the perfect storm and reason that ANYTHING managed by the Government should be mistrusted and any notion that by taking a Medicare like program and expanding it to 45,000,000 (number fabricated by the Left) uninsured will not cost us a dime; well just one more lie to add to the many Obama and his minions spew daily.

I would like you, just one time, to deal with the questions posed and statements I made instead of avoiding them and pretending that you have all the answers yet rarely answer anything.

The Government lied to the American people when they created Medicare and the costs that would be associated with it; they lied to the American people about Social Security and how it would be funded; and once again they are lying to the American people about National healthcare and how much the program will end up costing.

Then here on this forum, the Liberals like you, and quasi liberals who claim they are independents, suggest that they would trust Government far more than they can Insurance Companies. I find those statements stunning not just in the gross naiveté they present, but from the same Liberals who for 8 years demagogue an Republican administration at every opportunity and told us how we all shouldn't trust them as far as we can throw them.

Now suddenly, you all are arguing that the Government is the ONLY thing we can trust and that all them mean dastardly Corporations, CEOs and particularly those evil insurance companies few had issues with, are not to be trusted at all with our healthcare.

Good lord, even a small child can see the gross hypocrisy and deceit the Democrats and Libruls represent in such a short time span.

The fact here is this; the Government is currently LYING about the costs, it is fear mongering the ignorant and it is demogogueing those who debate their lies and distortions in the court of public opinion suggesting that Americans who use their constitutional right of free speech are just a bunch of wack jobs who should be ignored.

All one need do is watch Meet the Press and see Dick tiny brain Durbin and Dr. Howard “shout” Dean to see the real agenda here is to pass a National healthcare program while they have the majorities to do so.

Here’s Obama lying to the American people:

[ame=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32824051#32824051]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]


:2wave:

Another easy exposure of your assertion as a lie

CaptainCourtesy said:

Answered.

Click to expand...

A blatant lie and I will prove it so again.

Your post:

CaptainCourtesy said:

I work with insurance companies daily. Sad to say I would trust the government before I would trust an insurance company.

Click to expand...

My post:

Voidwar said:

And to whom would one appeal a breached contract ?

Click to expand...

Your attempt to substitute terminology and spin a tale :

CaptainCourtesy said:

When one appeals a denial of benefits with the insurance company, one would appeal to the insurance company. When one would appeal a denial of benefits with a public option, one would appeal to the agency in charge of the public option...similar to appealing to Medicare, now.

Click to expand...

You did not answer my question.
You substituted your own, about "denial of benefits" and then answered that.

Now you are repeatedly asserting a falsehood, trying to repeat it enough times that it becomes true. You can't. You didn't answer MY question, as I have shown, you used terminology substitution to make up your own question. You ran from my original question as phrased, and have tried to lie your way out of the fact for 5 pages now.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Why avoid a simple request such as this?

Click to expand...

Because you are rudely out of order. My simple request was first , and you know it.

obvious Child said:

Want to give numbers as to how well that goes? :rofl

I frankly don't see the difference between having an insurance criteria that delays constantly until you're dead or some government official decide you die. Either way, the doctor isn't involved and you're screwed. People act as if insurance deciding when you die is really any better. It's not.

Click to expand...

Another person who naively misses the issue altogether; if we are unhappy with our insurance companies we can go elsewhere; if we are unhappy with a Government run program, there is no place else to go except perhaps another country where one still can make CHOICES, much like what happens to people in countries who have become unknowing wards of their States.

I am hardly surprised with the continued willful denial of people who seem to think that Governments are suddenly more trustworthy than corporations.

Any of the "greenies" here want to guess who has been the BIGGEST polluter in America for the last decades?

What can one say to so many who fancy themselves as intelligent informed citizens yet so desperately desire to give up their freedom of choice to become wards of the State?

:doh

Re: Another easy exposure of your assertion as a lie

Voidwar said:

A blatant lie and I will prove it so again.

Your post:

My post:
Your attempt to substitute terminology and spin a tale :




You did not answer my question.
You substituted your own, about "denial of benefits" and then answered that.

Now you are repeatedly asserting a falsehood, trying to repeat it enough times that it becomes true. You can't. You didn't answer MY question, as I have shown, you used terminology substitution to make up your own question. You ran from my original question as phrased, and have tried to lie your way out of the fact for 5 pages now.



Because you are rudely out of order. My simple request was first , and you know it.

Click to expand...

You can re-explain this 50 times. You're still wrong and avoiding, and anyone with sense sees it. As I said...typical. If you can't clarify your terms, just say so.

Truth Detector said:

When one appeals the denial of benefits with the insurance companies and is not satisfied they have the option of our court systems.

With a GOVERNMENT plan you won’t be able to take them to court; it’s one of the methods they will reduce costs. Good luck with those appeals to faceless and non-caring Government workers who will be so overwhelmed they want give a crapola. :doh

I find the notion that the Government will care more than a private corporation who relies on customers to stay in business amusing but also dangerously uninformed and naive.

Click to expand...

If you want to remain an indentured servant to a large corporation you may be happy with the health insurance you receive. Otherwise, you are up a creek w/o a paddle / on your own mate- once you hit middle age and until you receive government run medicare.

Among this year's large rate increases on the individual market:

• Anthem Blue Cross in California has notified about 80% of its 800,000 individual policyholders of double-digit increases, many above 30%. Spokesman Ben Singer says rising medical costs are prompting the increases.

• Blue Cross of Michigan is seeking state approval for a 56% increase in individual premiums. Spokesman Andy Hetzel says the company needs to offset losses stemming from state rules making it the sole insurer required to take all applicants.

• Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield of Oregon will raise rates for approximately 10,000 Washington state customers by 27.1% on March 1.

Another Washington insurer, LifeWise, raised rates 17.6% on Jan. 1, according to the Office of the Insurance Commissioner in Washington state.

By comparison, group health insurance premiums paid by employers rose about 5% in 2008, says a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Some insurers say increases this year for individual policies aren't out of the ordinary. Aetna, for example, says individual policy increases nationwide range from 8% to 22%

Truth Detector said:

Medicare is the perfect storm and reason that ANYTHING managed by the Government should be mistrusted and any notion that by taking a Medicare like program and expanding it to 45,000,000 (number fabricated by the Left) uninsured will not cost us a dime; well just one more lie to add to the many Obama and his minions spew daily.

I would like you, just one time, to deal with the questions posed and statements I made instead of avoiding them and pretending that you have all the answers yet rarely answer anything.

The Government lied to the American people when they created Medicare and the costs that would be associated with it; they lied to the American people about Social Security and how it would be funded; and once again they are lying to the American people about National healthcare and how much the program will end up costing.

Then here on this forum, the Liberals like you, and quasi liberals who claim they are independents, suggest that they would trust Government far more than they can Insurance Companies. I find those statements stunning not just in the gross naiveté they present, but from the same Liberals who for 8 years demagogue an Republican administration at every opportunity and told us how we all shouldn't trust them as far as we can throw them.

Now suddenly, you all are arguing that the Government is the ONLY thing we can trust and that all them mean dastardly Corporations, CEOs and particularly those evil insurance companies few had issues with, are not to be trusted at all with our healthcare.

Good lord, even a small child can see the gross hypocrisy and deceit the Democrats and Libruls represent in such a short time span.

The fact here is this; the Government is currently LYING about the costs, it is fear mongering the ignorant and it is demogogueing those who debate their lies and distortions in the court of public opinion suggesting that Americans who use their constitutional right of free speech are just a bunch of wack jobs who should be ignored.

All one need do is watch Meet the Press and see Dick tiny brain Durbin and Dr. Howard “shout” Dean to see the real agenda here is to pass a National healthcare program while they have the majorities to do so.

Here’s Obama lying to the American people:

msnbc.com Video Player


:2wave:

Click to expand...

I'll gladly discuss this with you when you address the issue that I was presenting, which was NOT costs. If you want to have a monologue about costs, which was NOT what I addressed, be my guest, but I have no idea who you are talking to.

Truth Detector said:

Another person who naively misses the issue altogether; if we are unhappy with our insurance companies we can go elsewhere; if we are unhappy with a Government run program, there is no place else to go except perhaps another country where one still can make CHOICES, much like what happens to people in countries who have become unknowing wards of their States.

I am hardly surprised with the continued willful denial of people who seem to think that Governments are suddenly more trustworthy than corporations.


:doh

Click to expand...

It is called experience.

Truth Detector said:

Another person who naively misses the issue altogether; if we are unhappy with our insurance companies we can go elsewhere; if we are unhappy with a Government run program, there is no place else to go except perhaps another country where one still can make CHOICES, much like what happens to people in countries who have become unknowing wards of their States.

I am hardly surprised with the continued willful denial of people who seem to think that Governments are suddenly more trustworthy than corporations.

Any of the "greenies" here want to guess who has been the BIGGEST polluter in America for the last decades?

What can one say to so many who fancy themselves as intelligent informed citizens yet so desperately desire to give up their freedom of choice to become wards of the State?

:doh

Click to expand...

Another person who both doesn't get it. Please show where anyone is discussing a public ONLY option. No one is, so your post is irrelevant.

Re: Another easy exposure of your assertion as a lie

CaptainCourtesy said:

You can re-explain this 50 times. You're still wrong and avoiding,

Click to expand...

You started the avoiding because you refused to answer the original question.

No amount of "I'm rubber and you're glue" on your part can change that fact.

Your sneaky first move of avoidance, terminology substitution, has been detailed and exposed thoroughly.

YOU are the avoider. It's right there on page two.

CaptainCourtesy said:

If you can't clarify your terms, just say so.

Click to expand...

If you can't answer the original question, without resorting to your underhanded tactic of terminology substitution, just say so.

You began the "avoiding", and the order of posts on page two proves the fact beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Simon W. Moon said:

So, umm, what DO you mean by breach of contract, Void?

Click to expand...

Oh my, isn't this funny; the forums intellects admitting they don't comprehend a simple concept as breach of contract in a desperate effort to avoid substantive debate.

Here let me help you N the Capt’n; it means not meeting the terms of a legal contract.

For those of you who have difficulty with reading comprehension that would mean that if you enter into a "promise" with another party in either a writing, which is definitely the case with an Insurance agreement, or verbally and then break those promises, you are in breach of contract.

Hope that helped ya'll.

So what Void asked as pretty simple without all the efforts to obfuscate the issue with blather; who are you going to go to for remedy if your contract is within a Government run plan? The answer is obvious to anyone who doesn’t willfully try to wallow in denial.

On the contrary, the current system, that of your insurance company not honoring their promise, does allow a remedy within our system of courts.

:rofl

Truth Detector said:

Oh my, isn't this funny; the forums intellects admitting they don't comprehend a simple concept as breach of contract in a desperate effort to avoid substantive debate.

Click to expand...

Crushing!!