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Unfair Practices in Health Care

What is the least fair outcome of this, and why?

  • I do not receive those goods/services because I cannot pay

    Votes: 13 46.4%

  • The doctor does not receive compensation for the goods/services he provided

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • The doctor’s other patients foot the bill for the goods/services I received

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • The taxpayers foot the bill for the goods/services I received

    Votes: 5 17.9%
  • Total voters
    28
Cassandra said:
Given the extenuating circumstance I described, the answer is: for the good of the country.
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So, the medical professionals should be forced to provide their goods and services for free -- for the good of the country?
 
Cassandra said:
Given the extenuating circumstance I described, the answer is: for the good of the country.
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So, the medical professionals should be forced to provide their goods and services for free -- for the good of the country?
 
Goobieman said:
So, the medical professionals should be forced to provide their goods and services for free -- for the good of the country?
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I chose the first option as least fair. Taxpayers should be grateful when communicable disease is treated before it becomes wide spread. That does not mean that health professionals are unpaid. Make health care part of the Defense dept. budget and everyone will be happy!
 
Cassandra said:
I chose the first option as least fair....
That does not mean that health professionals are unpaid.
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So... should those goods and services be paid for by the other patients, the taxpayers, or both?
 
Goobieman said:
Did I? Oh, how -ever- did that happen?
:mrgreen:


That doesnt create a different problem, that's the same problem (and the same choices) shifted further down the line.
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Do you feel that emergency rooms should be allowed to deny lifesaving care to patients without insurance?

What about dumping? Should they be able to dump patients? Dumping is when an emergency room diverts less profitable patients to another ER. It's currently illegal.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Do you feel that emergency rooms should be allowed to deny lifesaving care to patients without insurance?
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I dont "feel" anything on the issue.

My position, however, is that I am not responsible for the goods and services provided to and consumed by others, and so I THINK that those that provide said goods and services need to determine if a patient can pay; if they do not, or they determine that the patient cannot pay, or they cannot make a determination one way or the other, and then choose to treat him anway, they do so knowing that they take the risk of not being compensated.
 
Goobieman said:
I dont "feel" anything on the issue.

My position, however, is that I am not responsible for the goods and services provided to and consumed by others, and so I THINK that those that provide said goods and services need to determine if a patient can pay; if they do not, or they determine that the patient cannot pay, or they cannot make a determination one way or the other, and then choose to treat him anway, they do so knowing that they take the risk of not being compensated.
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Please see the below definition for the word 'feel'. In the way that I used it it is synonymous with the word 'think' or 'believe'. I've highlighted that for your enlightenment.:)

* Main Entry: 1feel
* Pronunciation: \ˈfēl\
* Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): felt \ˈfelt\; feel·ing
* Etymology: Middle English felen, from Old English fēlan; akin to Old High German fuolen to feel, Latin palpare to caress
* Date: before 12th century

transitive verb 1 a : to handle or touch in order to examine, test, or explore some quality b : to perceive by a physical sensation coming from discrete end organs (as of the skin or muscles)
2 a : to undergo passive experience of b : to have one's sensibilities markedly affected by
3 : to ascertain by cautious trial —usually used with out
4 a : to be aware of by instinct or inference b : believe, think <say what you really feel>
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Please see the below definition for the word 'feel'.
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I'm sorry -- I thought you were looking for a seruous duscussion.
My bad.
 
Goobieman said:
So... should those goods and services be paid for by the other patients, the taxpayers, or both?
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Taxpayers- the sacrifice is more evenly distributed and does not create the problem of patients dropping insurance due to rising/unaffordable premiums.
 
Goobieman said:
I'm sorry -- I thought you were looking for a seruous duscussion.
My bad.
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You're the one who tried to make me look stupid by dissecting my usage of the word 'feel'. You know what I meant, but you chose to make my usage of language an issue. I don't really appreciate that.

I used to listen to Dr Laura a lot a few years back. I agreed with some of what she said, but ended up tiring of her nasty treatment of callers. That was one trick that she pulled frequently, jumping down the throat of usually female callers when they used the word 'feel' as a synonym for 'believe' or 'think'. It's a common usage, more often by women who tend to be more intuitive in their approach to life. It's a pet peeve of mine, it really turned me off to her.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
You're the one who tried to make me look stupid by dissecting my usage of the word 'feel'. You know what I meant, but you chose to make my usage of language an issue. I don't really appreciate that.
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It's not my fault that you're a little thin skinned.

Now, were you going to address my answer to your question, or not?
 
Cassandra said:
Taxpayers- the sacrifice is more evenly distributed and does not create the problem of patients dropping insurance due to rising/unaffordable premiums.
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How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
 
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Goobieman said:
How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
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"Fair" is subjective. As a society, we take for granted that we pay for the goods and services of others in a myriad of ways. I could provide a multitude of examples. Most people are concerned with protecting their own piece of the pie so they either ignore or rationalize the assistance received from taxpayers that helped them attain their particular lifeboat. As Warren Buffett noted; had he been born in Zimbabwe, he would be just another peasant dirt farmer.

Generally, I feel that health is a public good and at times it falls under the rubric of national defense.

That said, I can picture some circumstances under which I think denial of care would be justified...again, it depends on circumstances.
 
Goobieman said:
It's not my fault that you're a little thin skinned.

Now, were you going to address my answer to your question, or not?
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It's not my fault that you feel like you can erroneously and condescendingly criticize my usage of the English language without being corrected. You didn't like that did you? So rather than graciously admit you were incorrect on that point, you call me a name.

Why do you think I would want to attempt to have a discussion with someone who plays games like that? :rolleyes:
 
Cassandra said:
"Fair" is subjective. As a society, we take for granted that we pay for the goods and services of others in a myriad of ways. I could provide a multitude of examples. Most people are concerned with protecting their own piece of the pie so they either ignore or rationalize the assistance received from taxpayers that helped them attain their particular lifeboat. As Warren Buffett noted; had he been born in Zimbabwe, he would be just another peasant dirt farmer.

Generally, I feel that health is a public good and at times it falls under the rubric of national defense.

That said, I can picture some circumstances under which I think denial of care would be justified...again, it depends on circumstances.
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Very well said. Some also compare healthcare to providing roads, bridges and other infrastructure.

That said, there is a general lack of personal accountability already in our current healthcare system that is a serious problem.
 
Goobieman said:
How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
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Would you deny care to someone with Typhoid, hepatitis, H1N1, rather than have taxpayers pay for care?

An illegal immigrant with a ruptured appendix?
 
Cassandra said:
Would you deny care to someone with Typhoid, hepatitis, H1N1, rather than have taxpayers pay for care?

An illegal immigrant with a ruptured appendix?
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You didnt answer my question.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
It's not my fault that you feel like you can erroneously and condescendingly criticize my usage of the English language without being corrected. You didn't like that did you? So rather than graciously admit you were incorrect on that point, you call me a name.

Why do you think I would want to attempt to have a discussion with someone who plays games like that? :rolleyes:
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:2bigcry:

Let me know whan you want to get back to the discussion.
 
Cassandra said:
Did you read post #38?
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I did. ""Fair" is subjective" doesnt at all answer the question -- since you have already created a version of unfair fair, I am asking YOU how it is fair, not how society might consider it fair.

How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
 
Goobieman said:
I did. ""Fair" is subjective" doesnt at all answer the question -- since you have already created a version of unfair fair, I am asking YOU how it is fair, not how society might consider it fair.

How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
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Why isn't it? Who the hell are YOU to say that YOUR definition of fair is the only acceptable one that we all must adopt?
 
Kandahar said:
Why isn't it?
Who the hell are YOU to say that YOUR definition of fair is the only acceptable one that we all must adopt?
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I havent put out a definition of "fair", I have asked others to justify theirs.

But I DO find -your- question rather ironic, given that -you- have no issue assuming that -you- have some standing to define for the rest of us our responsibilities in this regard.

Who the hell are YOU?
 
Goobieman said:
I havent put out a definition of "fair", I have asked others to justify theirs.

But I DO find -your- question rather ironic, given that -you- have no issue assuming that -you- have some standing to define for the rest of us our responsibilities in this regard.
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I make no such claim. I have a definition of fair. You have a definition of fair that may differ from mine. Since no two people have the same set of values, let's instead look at which set of policies actually WORK:

Under my preferred system, everyone would be required to take care of themselves by buying a health care plan of their choice, and those who couldn't afford it would be subsidized by the government. Hospitals would get paid, everyone would get treated, and the only people who would be subsidized by the taxpayers were those who couldn't afford insurance.

Under your preferred system, hospitals would be allowed to reject ER patients (including those who had insurance) if the hospital could not determine their ability to pay at the time, allowing them to die on the sidewalk in front of the hospital instead.

I'll let those systems speak for themselves, regarding which is more practical.
 
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Kandahar said:
I make no such claim.
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:rofl
Your -entire stance- on the issue is such a claim, as your own post proves.

I ask again:
Who the hell are YOU?
 
Goobieman said:
I did. ""Fair" is subjective" doesnt at all answer the question -- since you have already created a version of unfair fair, I am asking YOU how it is fair, not how society might consider it fair.

How is it at all "fair" to force someone to pay for goods and services provided to someone else?
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I am trying to work with your semantics. Life ain't fair but I think it is relatively just to maximize public health. We pay taxes for these kinds of services.
 
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