View Poll Results: What is conservatism?

Voters
29. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's about being reactionary and authoritarian with a social agenda.

    5 17.24%
  • It's about smaller government and/or lower taxes.

    21 72.41%
  • It's about individual liberty.

    21 72.41%
  • It's about capitalism.

    19 65.52%
  • It's (also?) about something else which I will explain.

    9 31.03%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 55

Thread: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

  1. #31
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Regression is merely the conditions and arrangements associated with return to a previous state, which are critical facets of the fundamental nature of social conservatism, if not rightism in general.
    Today yes, because society is becoming more and more atomistic but normally social conservatives simply want to conserve their traditional societies which still exist while gradually adapting them.

    However, it's the socially authoritarian nature of previous conditions that conflict with our inner libertarian sentiments and natural instincts toward self-management, combined with resistance to the coercion traditionally utilized in religious settings, that form the core of the antipathy of most social progressives and civil libertarians to social conservatism and the perceived authoritarianism of those rightists that focus on preservation of traditionalism.
    Well obviously I disagree with this. In some ways I've relatively libertarian but I do reiterate the need for stable intermediate associations and their necessity for authority to maintain themselves. I cannot see anything but the loosest most ephemeral association standing long without any kind of authority; not necessarily very coercive or centralised authority but some kind of authority.

    By authority I mean what Robert Nisbet meant by it:

    By authority, I do not mean power. Power, I conceive as something external and based on force. Authority, on the other hand, is rooted in statuses, functions and allegiances which are the components of any association. Authority is indeed indistinguishable from organisation, and perhaps is the chief means by which organisation, and a sense of organisation, becomes part of human personality. Authority, like power, is a form of constraint, but, unlike power, it is based ultimately upon the consent of those under it; that is, it is conditional. Power arises only when authority breaks down.
    Apart from authority, as even the great anarchists have insisted, there can be no freedom, no individuality. What the anarchists said, and this is the splendid essence of anarchism and the link between it and such conservatives as Tocqueville and Action, is first, that there must be many (Nisbet's emphasis.)authorities in society, and, second that authority must be closely united to objective and functions which command the response and talents of member. Freedom is to be found in the interstices of authority; it is nourished by competition among authorities.


    Also the quote from Nisbet in my post above is very useful for the conservative view on authority.

    I think the use of the term "authoritarianism" is very problematic. I noted the difference between the conservative view of authority and both yours and what I gathered of Korymir's in the thread you had on that subject.

    "Authoritarianism" seems to me to suggest a very consolidated, top-down, long chain of command sort of a view which is very different from the social conservative view as shown above based on the reality of the social need for dispersed, balanced authority to support the intermediate associations that provide the individual with such a large amount of the framework for his everyday life and help keep the overbearing power of the state at bay.

    There's no major social conservative organization or alliance that has adopted both advocacy of those traditional mores often associated with religious tenets and anti-capitalism; that sounds as though it would be associated with a Christian Socialist contingency, but there isn't any such powerful bloc in this country.
    Personally I would consider the Catholic church reasonably large.

    We certainly aren't the mainstream but like the left there are enough of us economic decentralists and similar around on the right even though, like the left again, we are divided into many camps. I mean one could easily make the same comparison about the left, many less informed would say it was mainly social democrats, liberals(quite close to SDs obviously.) and state socialists. But the more informed could easily not just a lot more variety in the above three categories but many other, if smaller, varieties less centralist.
    Another off-topic post from you. I'll have to assume that you've accepted my argument, given that you've not attempted to reply to it.
    Man, you guys are both good posters it seems to me. I don't think there is much to gained by the way you are both behaving(obviously I'm not adverse to the old flamewar myself when provoked, , but that is my two cents worth.).
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 03:32 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #32
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post


    While I agree that the modern representation of the conservative cause is linked to neoliberalism, would you not agree the right doesn't properly represent the true conservative ideology? In my short life I have not seen properly applied conservatism by any party.
    Yes, I certainly have found few parties to represent my conservative views too well. Usually they are either not traditionalist enough or are wedded to neoliberalism; or both.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    11-01-09 @ 01:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    829

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    Explain please.

    Your accusations seem to criticize the republican party, not conservatism.
    Conservatism is not a fixed philosophy, it can bend with the wind.

    I'm a (Rothbardian) Anarcho-Capitalist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Can I just ask whether you think this kind of shrill and simplistic stuff is really going to win people over?
    Not from conservatives, no - their history works against them.

  4. #34
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yes, I certainly have found few parties to represent my conservative views too well. Usually they are either not traditionalist enough or are wedded to neoliberalism; or both.
    By traditionalist do you mean socially, politically, or both? Looking for clarification on your views.

    Personally I do not agree with many socially conservative views (I am Pro-choice, gay marriage, and an Atheist while not being entirely anti religion) while I am a strong supporter of the traditional family, the authoritarian values you have expressed, and a strong set of personal moral principles.

  5. #35
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    Conservatism is not a fixed philosophy, it can bend with the wind.

    I'm a (Rothbardian) Anarcho-Capitalist.

    Not from conservatives, no - their history works against them.
    I still see no detailed explanation of your position in your statements.

  6. #36
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    By traditionalist do you mean socially, politically, or both? Looking for clarification on your views.
    Well I'm relatively traditionalist in the social sense. Politically I'm conservative but also a decentralist. I believe in decentralising gov't, for instance I despise the EU and want a lot more power for the traditional English counties and regions.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #37
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    Not from conservatives, no - their history works against them.
    Ah, I see. Clearly that one line is an argument winning line that will make me rethink my whole political perspective.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 04:02 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #38
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    It looks like the majority of conservatives agree with my poll choices...
    ...which means they are right!

  9. #39
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,774

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I guess I don't get to vote, but the middle three choices are more along the line of libertarianism. The top one I would say is the current state of the conservative platform.
    Except the current leadership of the Republican party are not conservatives, they are neo-cons. There is a massive difference between the two, no matter how much they try to drop the "neo" part in public speech.

    There is nothing conservative about the modern-day Republican party.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #40
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Except the current leadership of the Republican party are not conservatives, they are neo-cons. There is a massive difference between the two, no matter how much they try to drop the "neo" part in public speech.

    There is nothing conservative about the modern-day Republican party.
    Fair enough. Though there are some neo-cons on this very board who voted for the middle three, but clearly support the first. One of the big problems is that the neo-cons want to try to pretend they are old school conservative, when their policies and platform are counter to what conservatism once meant.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •