View Poll Results: What is conservatism?

Voters
29. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's about being reactionary and authoritarian with a social agenda.

    5 17.24%
  • It's about smaller government and/or lower taxes.

    21 72.41%
  • It's about individual liberty.

    21 72.41%
  • It's about capitalism.

    19 65.52%
  • It's (also?) about something else which I will explain.

    9 31.03%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 55

Thread: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

  1. #11
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Thumbs up Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    I thought conservatism was supposed to be along the lines of an old definition: Conserving what is good, seeking to redress what is not working, and not clinging to ideas b/c they are tradition.


    But, I didn't vote b/c I'm not a conservative.
    well that explains alot, most liberals and "conservatives" also believe this...

    conservatism is the belief that:
    - people shold be free, only bound by moral values
    - government should be limited and molded by those it effects
    - balance can only be obtained by variety (rich and poor, many oposing views on subjects ect.)
    -this also applies to a strong belief in a "chain of command" authority system, apprentice to master, student to teacher, parents to child.
    -That hasty change is a reckless path to destruction, and all change should be carefully thought out before executed
    -that we must consider the past and all men of our past, for their thier acumulative knowlage far exceeds that which any modern man would ever have

    in a nutshell, there is so much more

  2. #12
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    That list is not very useful. It doesn't have a decent entry for social conservatism, a key part of any conservatism.

    Conservatism is not necessarily in favour of capitalism or corporate-capitalism, though it is not in favour of socialism either. It certainly is not individualist in the atomistic way of classical liberals like J.S Mill either. So while I think it is about individual liberty I won't check it because it seems to have the connotations of that corrosive, anti-conservatism ideology of absolute individualism. It could be said to be somewhat about smaller gov't, though that is a very one-dimensional way of putting it.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-09-09 at 11:18 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #13
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    well that explains alot, most liberals and "conservatives" also believe this...

    conservatism is the belief that:
    - people shold be free, only bound by moral values
    - government should be limited and molded by those it effects
    - balance can only be obtained by variety (rich and poor, many oposing views on subjects ect.)
    -this also applies to a strong belief in a "chain of command" authority system, apprentice to master, student to teacher, parents to child.
    -That hasty change is a reckless path to destruction, and all change should be carefully thought out before executed
    -that we must consider the past and all men of our past, for their thier acumulative knowlage far exceeds that which any modern man would ever have

    in a nutshell, there is so much more
    Good lord, I am a conservative...

  4. #14
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    I made a thread on this recently, here is my OP which is a good indicator of my views:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...servatism.html

    The way i see it many people simply do not understand what conservatism is about particularly political and social conservatism.

    So I thought I'd start a thread focusing on social and political conservatism, despite my laziness on thread making, so as to highlight what those who walk in the tradition of Burke actually believe. Three great explanatory works are these:

    The Kirk Center - Ten
    Conservative Principles by Russell Kirk


    Conservatives and Libertarians: Uneasy Cousins

    Edmund Burke: Reflections on the Revolution in France


    The first two at least are readable quite quickly. They explain the conservative view of society quite well.

    Certain interesting selections include Kirk's explanation of the importance of custom, tradition and convention --- a frequently misunderstood part of conservatism.

    Conservatives are champions of custom, convention, and continuity because they prefer the devil they know to the devil they don’t know. Order and justice and freedom, they believe, are the artificial products of a long social experience, the result of centuries of trial and reflection and sacrifice. Thus the body social is a kind of spiritual corporation, comparable to the church; it may even be called a community of souls. Human society is no machine, to be treated mechanically. The continuity, the life-blood, of a society must not be interrupted. Burke’s reminder of the necessity for prudent change is in the mind of the conservative. But necessary change, conservatives argue, ought to he gradual and discriminatory, never unfixing old interests at once.

    He also interestingly shows a common conservative point on inequality, uniformity and diversity:

    Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at levelling must lead, at best, to social stagnation. Society requires honest and able leadership; and if natural and institutional differences are destroyed, presently some tyrant or host of squalid oligarchs will create new forms of inequality.

    Also Nisbet explains the conservative view on authority and its relationship with liberty as well as the necessary restraint that a social order must place on the individual for a prosperous and free society.

    The conservative philosophy of liberty proceeds from the conservative philosophy of authority. It is the existence of authority in the social order that staves off encroachments of power from the political sphere. Conservatism, from Burke on, has perceived society as a plurality of authorities. There is the authority of parent over the small child, of the priest over the communicant, the teacher over the pupil, the master over the apprentice, and so on. Society as we actually observe it, is a network or tissue of such authorities; they are really numberless when we think of the kinds of authority which lie within even the smallest of human groups and relationships. Such authority may be loose, gentle, protective, and designed to produce individuality, but it is authority nevertheless. For the conservative, individual freedom lies in the interstices of social and moral authority. Only because of the restraining and guiding efforts of such authority does it become possible for human beings to sustain so liberal a political government as that which the Founding Fathers designed in this country and which flourished in England from the late seventeenth century on. Remove the social bonds, as the more zealous and uncompromising of libertarian individualists have proposed ever since William Godwin, and you emerge with, not a free but a chaotic people, not with creative but impotent individuals. Human nature, Balzac correctly wrote, cannot endure a moral vacuum.

    Anyway I hope that is enough to educate and start debate because as I said I'm a little lazy when it comes to starting threads.

    Note: Kirk mentions a divine order and such several times, the purpose of this thread is not a debate over the existence of god or anything similar. It is not necessary for this discussion so let's avoid that area please.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-09-09 at 11:14 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #15
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Good lord, I am a conservative...
    If only mate, we could do with more like you.

    Somehow though I don't think you'd agree with the general or social conservative position on those issues Mike listed.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-30-09 @ 08:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,648

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    well that explains alot, most liberals and "conservatives" also believe this...

    conservatism is the belief that:
    - people shold be free, only bound by moral values
    - government should be limited and molded by those it effects
    - balance can only be obtained by variety (rich and poor, many oposing views on subjects ect.)
    -this also applies to a strong belief in a "chain of command" authority system, apprentice to master, student to teacher, parents to child.
    -That hasty change is a reckless path to destruction, and all change should be carefully thought out before executed
    -that we must consider the past and all men of our past, for their thier acumulative knowlage far exceeds that which any modern man would ever have

    in a nutshell, there is so much more
    Always nice to see another Kirkian.

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Social conservatism is related to the preservation of traditional social mores and principles, which accounts for perceptions of the regressive nature of the social platform of rightist legislative candidates. This is usually paired with fiscal conservatism, which has had little consistent practical implementation, and involves spending reductions in favored areas while self-described fiscally conservative policymakers have utilized Military Keynesianism and the like in other areas.

  8. #18
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Good lord, I am a conservative...
    You very well might be. The real test is if you observe these values in your natural behaviors and beliefs, rather than just attaching yourself to and ideology for the heck of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Social conservatism is related to the preservation of traditional social mores and principles, which accounts for perceptions of the regressive nature of the social platform of rightist legislative candidates. This is usually paired with fiscal conservatism, which has had little consistent practical implementation, and involves spending reductions in favored areas while self-described fiscally conservative policymakers have utilized Military Keynesianism and the like in other areas.
    this is assuming that rightist candidates are proper representatives of "social" conservatism, and arguing these people utilize Military Keynesiznism is a ridiculous accusation.

    I also find it ironic that a self-proclaimed "Libertarian" would state fiscal conservatism has little consistent practical implementation.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeVFF View Post
    this is assuming that rightist candidates are proper representatives of "social" conservatism, and arguing these people utilize Military Keynesiznism is a ridiculous accusation.
    I see no reason to believe why traditionalist rightist candidates aren't social conservatives, and I also didn't claim that they utilized Military Keynesianism. I claimed that Military Keynesianism has been a rightist-accepted element of alleged fiscal conservatism, particularly during the Reagan administration.

    I also find it ironic that a self-proclaimed "Libertarian" would state fiscal conservatism has little consistent practical implementation.
    I never claimed to be a Libertarian, which would imply party membership. I only adhere to small 'l' libertarianism, though the legitimate sort and not the capitalist fraud so prevalent in this country.

  10. #20
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Re: For CONSERVATIVES: What is conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I see no reason to believe why traditionalist rightist candidates aren't social conservatives,
    ignorance in no ground to back your statement.

    and I also didn't claim that they utilized Military Keynesianism. I claimed that Military Keynesianism has been a rightist-accepted element of alleged fiscal conservatism, particularly during the Reagan administration.
    Which would, again, imply rightists are properly representing fiscal conservatism. Why do you force me to redundancy?

    I never claimed to be a Libertarian, which would imply party membership. I only adhere to small 'l' libertarianism, though the legitimate sort and not the capitalist fraud so prevalent in this country.
    So you are denying you share views with the libertarian ideology?

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •