View Poll Results: Do you feel the government should be allowed to do this?

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Thread: Fines for abortion?

  1. #21
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Over population can also be a hinderance to ecenomic growth. Look at China or the b aby boomers busting medicare.
    China's economy is growing at a rate that we can only dream of. Eventually, they will be the worlds largest economy. Once they develop a sustainable middle class, there will be no way to catch up either.

    Unless of course we have more babies or open the immigration flood gates.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-09-09 at 02:01 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #22
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    That aint what he is talking about. Giving a fine is not "making medical decisions" for anyone.. it is giving a fine for doing something supposedly "wrong".. it is behaviour modification nothing more, nothing less.
    Basically, it's on a par with investigating the personal life of someone presenting at an Emerengency Room with a heart attack, to see if they've ever smoked or eaten unhealthy foods or drank or sat on the couch when they could have been exercising, so as to fine them accordingly based on these acts. It'd be unfair and a deeply selective penalty, as, if one looked hrd enough, we could find something a person had done to make themselves more likely to need any treatment or procedure.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Really? Because I contend that if not for abortion being available, we would probably have a much bigger welfare problem on our hands, higher crime rates, much more common instances of child abuse and neglect, more widespread addiction problems, and a swelling population of broken, damaged undesirables to support.
    That could all be true, although it is arbitrary at best. What we do know though, is that the only way to stimulate economic growth during stagnate periods is with population expansion.

    But, your response would be typical to the opinion of many American citizens when the massive waves of immigrants were coming ashore in the late 19th early 20th century. You know, the tired, poor, and sick
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #24
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    China's economy is growing at a rate that we can only dream of. Eventually, they will be the worlds largest economy. Once they develop a sustainable middle class, there will be no way to catch up either.

    Unless of course we have more babies.
    And China does have very strict population controls.

  5. #25
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    And China does have very strict population controls.
    They have eclipsed 1 billion people though, and are supposedly a communist state.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #26
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    That could all be true, although it is arbitrary at best. What we do know though, is that the only way to stimulate economic growth during stagnate periods is with population expansion.

    But, your response would be typical to the opinion of many American citizens when the massive waves of immigrants were coming ashore in the late 19th early 20th century. You know, the tired, poor, and sick
    The tired, the poor, the sick were here to advance their futures with determination and hard work. They weren't subject to abortion so I am not sure how you draw the parallel there.

    I also don't understand how you think that a dependent, damaged undesirable born to a crack addicted mother, neglectful father, and with a host of illnesses relating to it's birth that will burden the state with high costs of medical treatment will stimulate the economy. I'm also not sure how a 4th or 5th baby born to an unwed mother who will become an 18 year recipient of state assistance is supposed to stimulate the economy. I'm also not sure how the child born to the mother who didn't want her and ends up a ward of the state is supposed to stimulate the economy.

  7. #27
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So here's the question. Do you feel the government has the power, or should, fine a woman for either having an abortion or choosing not to carry a child to term? Essentially, that women are completely free to do with their body as they wish, and their privacy is definitely respected.........but if you chose to not carry to term / to abort then the government fines you X amount of dollars, say to cover the costs of people who may be getting free abortions due to lack of financial means or to cover the loss of revenue the government will feel by not having an extra citizen come into this world.

    Would this be a breach of the right to privacy? Should the government be fining you for choosing not to do something that you believe effects your health?
    As to whether the government can do this, it would depend on whether the government can make a case that it is allowed to discourage abortion. Fines are there to discourage certain actions. I doubt that would be considered legal currently.

  8. #28
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    The government shouldn't be providing money to assist in abortions in the first place.

    That's where a lot of the problems with abortion come from.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

  9. #29
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Abortion is far cheaper than having children. Although it might be able to break even if abortion was evenly distributed among potential wage earning ability, most abortions occur in situations where the potential child would almost certainly end up being a net cost to society.

  10. #30
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    Re: Fines for abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, I had no intention of bringing that up in any way in this thread. Far more me trying to understand the rationale of people because I routinely am seeing a thought process that is conflicting so maybe it'll give me some insight.

    When doing threads like these I don't like actually springing any "trap", though have at times in the past. To me its cheap. That doesn't mean I won't start another thread discussing the issue and using insight from this one, but often times people try to much to spring "the trap" that it ruins a legitimately good conversation.

    And its not just support x, but also oppose x.
    caught me with my pants down. however, lets admit that the "trap" is a frequently employed tactic.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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