View Poll Results: Should the U.S. pull it's troops out of Afganistan?

Voters
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  • Yes. There is no possible victory there for us.

    11 17.19%
  • No. Stay & finish the job

    35 54.69%
  • Yes. Leave a mobil force in the area to fight terrorists/Taliban but leave Afganistan.

    15 23.44%
  • Pull all troops out of the area. It's not our fight.

    10 15.63%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    If we allow the military to do its job we will win, pretty easily. It will just take a while, is all. They can't outlast us militarily; only the politicians and defeatists can lose this war.
    True, but this is where they are making a mess of things. They aren't understading what we are facing. Even with a history of examples to draw from, they refuse to acknowledge what we are up against as they look towards examples that have nothing to do with it. They're going to lead us into failure, sacrificing our soldiers, Marines, and Navy Corpsmen for nothing: Political Correctness kills.

    The conundrum is that our military strength (which is far stronger than most can ever fathom) makes our policy makers lazy. Neglectful of other instruments and means of national power, they inevitably find themselves forced to resort to military solutions. And after they have tossed our tired (but still motivated and driven) military into the fire and see exactly what our military is trained to do via media cameras that have no business in war, they do 180s and voice that the situation demands a politicial solution.

    Our political morons continue to pretend that we are in a war like any other. This politically correct notion to refrain from offending a certain religion leaves our leaders unarmed and mentally ill equipped to make sound decisions. This attitude has even found its way into the Army's new "Counterinsurgency" manual - it barely mentions Islamic fanaticism or religion at all. The problem (as I see it) is that if we actually took a hard look at this and identified exactly what it is then we would have to abandon this "hearts and minds" dogma that satisfies those who have broken from this world's reality since 1992.

    Washington doesn't discuss religion as an integral element of the security challenges we face. Our enemies insist that religion is dearer to them than all else. Does Washington (And I mean Congressmen, White House, Pentagon, etc.) think they are just making this up? Have the religious suicide bombers blended in with the athiest suicide bombers so well?

    Afghanistan is a country of jealous clans patched together with uneasy compromises, lies, and corruption. And these clans form the government. It will always be Afghainstan. "Nation building" here is a joke. "Winning the hearts and minds" here is largely a joke. And thinking that our enemies will one day come to the table with a note of surrender is about the most tragically dumbest mistake our civilian leaders and media continue to make. The same is true for those who continue to mention that negotiating with the Tali-Ban will give us that political "victory."

    The absolute truth and a an absolute fact of history is that military solutions have been the only effective tool in defeating insurgencies. Afghanistan is not Iraq. There is no politicial solution here. Sacrificing our troops lives by not allowing them to "Call for Fire" because it is a political burden to see dead civilians on TV is treacherous. Sending them to slaughter the enemy at the expense of some of their lives and then look to negotiate with the enemy for "peace" is a waste of American lives as well. Pretending that we can get through this period of history without recognizing the very real religious threat in order to maintain a sense of political correctness despite our enemies throwing God at us repeatedly while immersed within a deeply rooted religious civilization is irresponsible to our troops and our national security.

    Our educated enemies are not under any kind of illusion. They know they cannot defeat us. They know that we will continue to exist and be successful ever embarrassing their own civilizations who all but claim the market on failure. But they are willing to continue the fight for their God, because it is the fight that ulitmately matters. Deathy is the reward (72 virgins) not victory. They will continue to fight until we simply get tired and move on. But we can deny them this....

    Our enemies in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) do not need to see our troops on the ground any longer to feel pain. Since nation building in Afghanistan will only give strength to a government full of corruption and completely dependent upon American military strength to exist (after 8 years mind you) it may be time to recognize that this is a pointless endeavor (I keep stating that this is not Iraq). Dropping in special forces as need be from our sea bases and launching missiles into their Tali-Ban/Al-Queda neighborhoods will exact the punishment they have earned until they grow tired and move on.

    And our attacks need to start being vicious. They need to leave even our allies in shock. We returned punches with our enemies with astounding success up until Korea. From then on we have been growing deeper attached to this idea of "winning hearts and minds" and negotiating "victories." Korea still awaits the next round. Vietnam was sacrificed. The end of the Gulf War saw us negotiate a victory rather than finish the job and declare it with pride and absoluteness. In the end, our leftists and our drama hungry media has caused more death and destruction than anything else. By shedding crocodile tears for the few, they manage to create the oppression and slaughter to come. Instead of allowing the military to do what it is trained to do, it is instructed to seek other ways to "win" so that our politicians can protect their pathetic images. Support the troop? Or does the troop wind up supporting the politician?

    In war, you don't get points for good manners. It's about winning. Victory forgives.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Our enemies in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) do not need to see our troops on the ground any longer to feel pain. Since nation building in Afghanistan will only give strength to a government full of corruption and completely dependent upon American military strength to exist (after 8 years mind you) it may be time to recognize that this is a pointless endeavor (I keep stating that this is not Iraq). Dropping in special forces as need be from our sea bases and launching missiles into their Tali-Ban/Al-Queda neighborhoods will exact the punishment they have earned until they grow tired and move on.
    Amen...great summation on post, Gunny.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?


    We should get out of Afganistan only after we've turned the entire country into a parking lot.


    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  4. #64
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    I'm thinking Gunny pretty much nailed it.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    If we allow the military to do its job we will win, pretty easily. It will just take a while, is all. They can't outlast us militarily; only the politicians and defeatists can lose this war.
    Wrong. There are some things that the military can do very well and some things it does extremely poorly. The military, no matter how many bullets and bombs and multi-billion dollar bombers they have, can never change the minds of the people they are shelling. We can wipe out the Taliban but once we leave, they or a similar group will reform because that's what the people of Afghanistan want. Until they decide, on their own, that they want something different, this is a pointless fight.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    JOHN NAGL

    President of the Center for a New American Security

    America has vital national security interests in Afghanistan that make fighting there necessary. The key objectives of the campaign are preventing Afghanistan from again serving as a sanctuary for terrorists with global reach and ensuring that it does not become the catalyst for a broader regional security meltdown. Afghanistan also serves as a base from which the United States attacks al-Qaeda forces inside Pakistan and thus assists in the broader campaign against that terrorist organization -- one that we clearly must win.

    U.S. policymakers must, of course, weigh all actions against America's global interests and the possible opportunity costs. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, low-cost strategies do not have an encouraging record of success. U.S. efforts to secure Afghanistan on the cheap after 2001 led it to support local strongmen whose actions alienated the population and thereby enabled the Taliban to reestablish itself as an insurgent force. Drone attacks, although efficient eliminators of Taliban and al-Qaeda leaders, have not prevented extremist forces from spreading and threatening to undermine both Afghanistan and Pakistan. The so-called "light footprint" option has failed to secure U.S. objectives; as the Obama administration and the U.S. military leadership have recognized, it is well past time for a more comprehensive approach.
    Topic A: Is the War in Afghanistan Worth Fighting? - washingtonpost.com

    OBL 11/24/02

  7. #67
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    The "liberals" in favour of pulling out dont care or dont wanna talk about the little girls who are finally being given the chance to be educated and have a real future.

    We do however have to have a rational conversation about Afganistan because its gonna take years to achieve victory.

    This may sound callous but their hasnt been massive casualties of allies troops.If we stop the policy of burning Opium we may still change it for the better.Otherwise what is the point of the military?
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    The "liberals" in favour of pulling out dont care or dont wanna talk about the little girls who are finally being given the chance to be educated and have a real future.
    That's fantastic but, forgive me, this is going to sound a little callous, but what business is that of ours? We have no control over what any other nation does with their citizens and certainly no military right to move in and attempt to impose change on them by force. It might be a place for diplomacy, but so long as people in the Muslim world are spraying acid in the faces of girls just trying to get an education and in some Islamic nations, more than 50% of girls are married off before the age of 18, more than 25% before 15, and many die in childbirth at a terribly young age, that's a serious problem that bombing them isn't going to change.

    The only way to fix it is to convince them to change their beliefs. Good luck on that.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #69
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    The way I think about having our military involved in another country is this:

    Is our presence there moral, (always a judgment call) AND is there a clearly definable & realistic path to victory for us? (if the clear answer to both of those questions is not YES...then we shouldn't be there)
    Clear paths to victory are easy based on the way wars use to be fought, but not so easy in assymetric warfare. I wish it was different.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Clear paths to victory are easy based on the way wars use to be fought, but not so easy in assymetric warfare. I wish it was different.
    Then don't get involved in these war unless we are physically attacked by a nation, not just a bunch of nomadic terrorists.

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