View Poll Results: Should the U.S. pull it's troops out of Afganistan?

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  • Yes. There is no possible victory there for us.

    11 17.19%
  • No. Stay & finish the job

    35 54.69%
  • Yes. Leave a mobil force in the area to fight terrorists/Taliban but leave Afganistan.

    15 23.44%
  • Pull all troops out of the area. It's not our fight.

    10 15.63%
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Thread: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am always amused when Liberals think that one can just declare a victory then run away from an unfinished job.

    Yeah...Don't you just hate it when liberals do that!
    Attached Images Attached Images Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?-mission-accomplished-jpg 

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Yeah...Don't you just hate it when liberals do that!
    Awwww, there you go pretending you aren't one again. I find that amusing; thanks for making me laugh.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    This is quite simple actually. The problem is that people have no idea how to define "victory" in today's wars. We are already victorious. Staying and finishing the job implies that there is still work for us to do on the ground, but when the host government is as corrupt as what Vietnam's was in 1971, there is no job left to finish. Leaving a mobile force in the area will only leave them stranded without proper support as the host government continues to remain dependant on American muscle. And only part of this is and always was our fight.

    Our mission in Iraq was to destroy the dictator and offer Iraq an opportunity at democracy. We accomplished our mission and it is up to Iraqis to follow through on their end for the rest. It will be their success or failure.

    The same is true for Afghanistan. The Tali-Ban was removed from power and Al-Queda's base shattered in quick fashion and Osama Bin Laden is no longer a physical player. But the vast corruption in the Afghani government has not allowed the Afghanis to step up. Afghanis have failed. We have not. It is time to stop fooling ourselves into thinking that we have to "fix what we break," especially considering that this region was already broke.

    When it comes to this Afghani/Pakistani region, our roles need to be relegated to punishment. We should pull our troops out and strike as needed via UAVs, missiles, and special forces launched from sea bases.

    Our role as a "nation builder" must be defined into more practical terms. We have to understand that no matter what we do, we can and always do come home. The failed will always be these people who can't fathom a world beyond tribal allegiance, religious extremism, and corruption and oppression.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-13-09 at 08:49 PM.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    This is quite simple actually. The problem is that people have no idea how to define "victory" in today's wars. We are already victorious. Staying and finishing the job implies that there is still work for us to do on the ground, but when the host government is as corrupt as what Vietnam's was in 1971, there is no job left to finish. Leaving a mobile force in the area will only leave them stranded without proper support as the host government continues to remain dependant on American muscle. And only part of this is and always was our fight.

    Our mission in Iraq was to destroy the dictator and offer Iraq an opportunity at democracy. We accomplished our mission and it is up to Iraqis to follow through on their end for the rest. It will be their success or failure.

    The same is true for Afghanistan. The Tali-Ban was removed from power and Al-Queda's base shattered in quick fashion and Osama Bin Laden is no longer a physical player. But the vast corruption in the Afghani government has not allowed the Afghanis to step up. Afghanis have failed. We have not. It is time to stop fooling ourselves into thinking that we have to "fix what we break," especially considering that this region was already broke.

    When it comes to this Afghani/Pakistani region, our roles need to be relegated to punishment. We should pull our troops out and strike as needed via UAVs, missiles, and special forces launched from sea bases.

    Our role as a "nation builder" must be defined into more practical terms. We have to understand that no matter what we do, we can and always do come home. The failed will always be these people who can't fathom a world beyond tribal allegiance, religious extremism, and corruption and oppression.
    Great post but way to deep & thoughtful for the simple minded far-right-wingers! (Their attention span only allows for simple one line talking points & jingoistic slogans.
    What you say requires thought, which is simply beyond their capability!

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Yes, with one exception. As George Wills aptly points out:

    Afghanistan's $23 billion gross domestic product is the size of Boise's. Counterinsurgency doctrine teaches, not very helpfully, that development depends on security, and that security depends on development. Three-quarters of Afghanistan's poppy production for opium comes from Helmand. In what should be called Operation Sisyphus, U.S. officials are urging farmers to grow other crops. Endive, perhaps?
    washingtonpost.com

    If Afghanistan can find something it does comparatively well and with high enough value to absorb the shipping costs, then we should stay. Without development, we'll be fighting the same war for decades.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Great post but way to deep & thoughtful for the simple minded far-right-wingers! (Their attention span only allows for simple one line talking points & jingoistic slogans.
    What you say requires thought, which is simply beyond their capability!
    I find the left even more confused.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    I find the left even more confused.
    I find them intelligent

  8. #38
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The difference between Afghanistan and Iraq is that Afghanistan was legitimate target after 9/11. We should have never left there and gone off to fight some retard war in Iraq. What should we do now? Well now it's hard to say. Can we make a difference? Maybe. Can we clear up the mess which led to the freedom the Taliban enjoyed in the country? Maybe not so much any more. It will be tough, I don't know how it would be done, and who knows we may get side tracked into a different war while doing it.

    I'm not so willing to say Afghanistan wasn't our war, but we screwed the pooch hard on this one.
    Unfortunately, as you said, we handled it so piss-poorly that I don't know if there's any hope in actually accomplishing anything. We're sure not going to wipe out Al-Quaeda and to be honest, the only reason Bush went after the Taliban is they were an embarrassment to us. We have a long history of stabbing people we used to support in the back.

    Unless they can offer some reason to think they can actually find bin Laden and actually cause serious harm to Al-Quaeda by remaining there, we ought to pull out and be honest in our failure.
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This again is false; we never "left" Afghanistan, it was turned over to the NATO by the UN to manage.
    Well....****ed that one up then didn't we? Point still stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Gee, sounds like the UN can't seem to do anything right eh?

    I am always amused when people think that wars can be fought without mistakes, without cost, without sacrifice and in the time it takes to order a burger at Burger King.
    I am always amused when people think that strict adherence to failing policies will actually lead to a solution.

    Also if I was waiting at a Burger King for close to 8 years...I'd be a little pissed off and I don't think that would be unwarranted.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-14-09 at 01:04 PM.
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I am always amused when people think that strict adherence to failing policies will actually lead to a solution.
    I am amused that you think people are arguing for strict adherence to failing policies; no, it is actually ironic in that all your arguments suggest an adherence to the failed policy of never finishing anything we start and abandoning our allies while falling for terrorist propaganda.

    Bin Laden had it right; I was hoping that 9-11 would prove him wrong; I guess I had too much faith in the American people's ability to remember anything past the last episode of Survivor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Also if I was waiting at a Burger King for close to 8 years...I'd be a little pissed off and I don't think that would be unwarranted.
    Well obviously you think wars can be fought without mistakes, without cost, without sacrifice and in the time it takes to order a burger at Burger King.

    Do me a favor, when you find one historic example of a war being fought without mistakes, without cost and without sacrifice in less than a year, get back to me okay?

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