View Poll Results: Should the U.S. pull it's troops out of Afganistan?

Voters
64. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. There is no possible victory there for us.

    11 17.19%
  • No. Stay & finish the job

    35 54.69%
  • Yes. Leave a mobil force in the area to fight terrorists/Taliban but leave Afganistan.

    15 23.44%
  • Pull all troops out of the area. It's not our fight.

    10 15.63%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 412131415 LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 147

Thread: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

  1. #131
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That people like you are pushing Americans to their deaths and trying to get the rest of us to **** our pants so we support you. Whatever. Forever war is not good, will never be good, will not take us to good places. That's all there is too it.
    Now you engage in empty headed hyperbolic rhetoric in lieu of engaging your brain. How absurd to suggest that anyone is push Americans to their deaths. It is as farcical as your claim of “forever war.” Yes they make cute naïve little talking points, but they lack in anything relevant or coherent in the debate.

    I am not surprised that you didn’t spend on iota reading what I stated and merely selectively picked out something you could attack with your typical banal hyperbolic blather.

    The following comments are an example of the wrong headed efforts we are now witnessing from the media and the naïve “community organizing mentality” current leaders of our Government:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But all the freaking out about it is a bit much. 3,000 people is quite a bit, but more than that die each year from cars and I'm not supposed to freak out about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Totally agree that 9/11 was so horribly successful (for the terrorists) due to mishandling by the Bush admin...bordering on dereliction of duty, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    9-11 was a blip, mostly because the White House ignored all warning signs that an attack was imminent.

  2. #132
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Now you engage in empty headed hyperbolic rhetoric in lieu of engaging your brain.
    I was trying to play you on an even playing field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    How absurd to suggest that anyone is push Americans to their deaths. It is as farcical as your claim of “forever war.” Yes they make cute naïve little talking points, but they lack in anything relevant or coherent in the debate.
    I'm not the one supporting forever war

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am not surprised that you didn’t spend on iota reading what I stated and merely selectively picked out something you could attack with your typical banal hyperbolic blather.
    What you write is normally pointless, hyperpartisan blather excusing the wars and asking for more. More money, more lives, we can't "fail" even though win and fail aren't defined nor is there a competent and realistic plan to get us to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The following comments are an example of the wrong headed efforts we are now witnessing from the media and the naïve “community organizing mentality” current leaders of our Government:
    mine was truth. People freak out about terrorism and try to excuse war because of it, but it's a low probability event. Even the most successful attack took 3,000 people. More lives are spent on cars than terrorist attacks. Yet I'm not supposed to freak out over cars but I'm supposed to **** myself and blind myself to reality over terrorism. It doesn't make sense. We lost 3,000 civilians, then in war we more than doubled that number. We've put ourselves into horrible debt, there's still out of control spending, out of control wars, and no plan for success. Just throw money and lives at it forever it seems. Which is one of the dumbest "plans" ever for fighting a war. Do you purposefully take after Zapp Brannigan, or is it coincidental?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #133
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    What I'm saying is that the cost is non-sustainable, not that there is no cost. Are we prepared to go to war with every nation around Afghanistan in order to ensure that the Taliban stays out of it? That's my point.

    I do agree with you to some extent that liberal campaigns have made troop deployments less effective, but please do not accuse me of being a pacifist. Even though I prefer that wars not be waged, I tend to err on the side of structural realism when it comes to human conflict.

    Osama Bin Laden is more than likely already dead and the Al Qaeda network has been severely damaged since the start of the campaign. Places like Kabul and Kandahar have seen freedom as they haven't seen for more than half a century. Bush's stated mission was to fight terrorism in Afghanistan, I think we've accomplished a lot of that. We brought democracy to the region, trained its own security forces, and established bases for long term oversight.

    The stated mission for Afghanistan was to fight terrorism. Please tell me how we are going to eliminate all terrorism from the Middle East?

    Afghanistan may be a democracy on paper, but it is already voting in civil rights violations (according to our standard) left, right, and centre. The more recent bills passed supporting the domestic rape and imprisonment of women by their husbands is appalling.

    What we are now defending is not a nation that wishes to be of our own making. We aren't defending its democracy, but rather our long term strategic and economic investment. Don't fool yourself into believing we are there for any other reason than our own interest.
    I am going to address a couple of your point’s then leave you with the last word because soon we will be entering into a never ending circle of futility:

    Osama Bin Laden is more than likely already dead and the Al Qaeda network has been severely damaged since the start of the campaign

    The problem with this idea is first and foremost, we don't know if Bin Laden is dead so conjecture suggesting he is and therefore we are done is beyond absurd.

    In addition, such logic requires suspending disbelief in that there is not another Bin Laden to take the lead.

    The real issue here is the farcical notion that this is JUST about Bin Laden and that terrorism will somehow cease with his death or capture.

    Please tell me how we are going to eliminate all terrorism from the Middle East?

    Re-read or read what I have already posted in response to this.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058268671

    Afghanistan may be a democracy on paper, but it is already voting in civil rights violations (according to our standard) left, right, and centre.

    It took this nation over 200 years and a major civil war to establish a successful prosperous democracy; what makes people think that this can be done in the ME in two nations who have NEVER experienced democracy in a matter of years?

    We aren't defending its democracy, but rather our long term strategic and economic investment.

    This is patently false; there is nothing "strategic or economically beneficial to the US in Afghanistan. We are ONLY there because it had become a base for the terrorist attacks on 9-11 and contained a regime that sought to defend and protect terrorists.

    Geographically, Afghanistan and areas in Pakistan have always been a convenient and safe place for basing terrorist operations and would revert back to those ways if we and the Pakistani government fail.

  4. #134
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The problem with this idea is first and foremost, we don't know if Bin Laden is dead so conjecture suggesting he is and therefore we are done is beyond absurd.
    Obviously the proof has not been made aware to the public, but when was the last time you heard Osama Bin Laden mentioned on the news or even in a White House press conference? He's dead. GySgt is right... it would make no sense to disclose that now because it would give the impression that the mission is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    In addition, such logic requires suspending disbelief in that there is not another Bin Laden to take the lead.
    Yes... and this ties into the forever war concept. You kill one, another replaces them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The real issue here is the farcical notion that this is JUST about Bin Laden and that terrorism will somehow cease with his death or capture.
    The idea that terrorism can be defeated, as if it's an objective target with finite resources, is just as farcical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It took this nation over 200 years and a major civil war to establish a successful prosperous democracy; what makes people think that this can be done in the ME in two nations who have NEVER experienced democracy in a matter of years?
    You are right, actually, about the civil rights front... it does take time.

    However, the bolded part is not true of Afghanistan. Under Zahir Shah they experimented with it in the 60's, prior to the Soviet invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This is patently false; there is nothing "strategic or economically beneficial to the US in Afghanistan. We are ONLY there because it had become a base for the terrorist attacks on 9-11 and contained a regime that sought to defend and protect terrorists.
    The 9-11 attacks coincided with plans for the Middle East anyway. That's why they were so convenient for the Bush administration. I'm not saying at all that the WTC attack was orchestrated by the Bush admin, but it definitely helped their cause.

    Afghanistan is a rich oil region and annexing it to the other oil allies, such as Iraq and Israel, provides sufficient territorial girth for the expansion of the pipeline. Please do a little bit of research... a pipeline is being constructed in Afghanistan as we speak. There were plenty of juicy infrastructure contracts given to the multi-national corporations following initial ground operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Geographically, Afghanistan and areas in Pakistan have always been a convenient and safe place for basing terrorist operations and would revert back to those ways if we and the Pakistani government fail.
    I agree, but that's not the reason we are there. If it was simply about terrorism, there'd be plenty of targets around the world for our to invest our military might in. Think about the Darfur genocide. That made headlines all throughout the Bush admin years, yet no meaningful action was taken. So clearly it is not so much about humanitarianism and terrorism.

    There have to be benefits for the U.S. to want to invest this many resources into an operation, and suffer the opportunity cost as well. Think about all that money that could be spent on the home front, or even in other foreign operations. The Middle East was chosen for specific reasons, and clearly a cost/benefit analysis has come into play. Even though lives are being lost and military dollars spent, someone at the top has decided that the benefit outweighs the cost. Geopolitically, the Middle East is extremely important, and resource wise it is abundant.
    Last edited by Orion; 09-23-09 at 08:24 PM.

  5. #135
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-14-11 @ 10:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Okay. As someone who has worked for government for almost my entire life, what I'd respond is that it's good that you are involved in expressing your views. However, you are not a professional in this field, and your views have no more weight than anyone else's.
    Well, I am. I disagree with you.

    I've heard a lot of citizen input in the last 19 years in my field. The vast, overwhelming majority of it was uninformed by any research, experience, or understanding, and it was utterly unhelpful.
    It's not our fault that you've surrounded yourself with uneducated dummies.

    Had I followed it, we'd have been even more clustered than we already were.
    No, sir, our situation is FUBAR now because we listened to the "experts".

    Let the professionals do their jobs. I have slightly more confidence in their opinions than I do yours.
    You shouldn't. Really. You shouldn't.

  6. #136
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-14-11 @ 10:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    OK, there are some things that need to be said on this thread.
    Truths about 9/11:

    The 9/11 terrorists did not prepare for the 9/11 attacks in terrorist training camps in Afghanistan by climbing on monkey bars, crawling under barbedwire and aimlessly firing AK-47s into the desert. They plotted 9/11 by researching weaknesses and antiquated hijack policies and procedures in the commercial travel industry in America. They used and abused the rediculous U.S. student visa and green card policies. They enrolled in an American flight school and trained to fly by day…and enjoyed Gentlemen’s clubs by night.

    Those attacks were plotted over chai tea by organized criminals. Not over a campfire by battle-hardened insurgents.

    If the leaders of this country were SERIOUS about battling terrorism and protecting our country, we would:
    -Racially profile at U.S. airports and pressure other nations to do so.
    -Deny visas to any Arab male aged 18-50 named Mohammed or something similar
    -Protect our borders where they are vulnerable
    -Secure our ports and conduct rigorous inspection of incoming cargo.
    -See that the majority of our Homeland Security money goes to major target cities and landmarks.
    -Continue warrantless wiretapping international phone calls from and to suspected terror suspects.
    -Keep Guantanamo open and full.

    But we won’t do these things because they aren’t politically correct or acceptable by some in power. They would rather send American boys to die in a wasteland that has absolutely no chance in hell of ever becoming a functioning democracy of any kind. The people in Afghanistan are cavemen. They are too far behind the times to understand what we are trying to do for them. Furthermore, we do not possess the resources, manpower, military capability or political will to truly secure that country and make it a functioning democracy, rid of all Islamic fanatics. Even if we did, it is an impossible task. None of this matters anyway, because a free and democratic Afghanistan does not mean we are safe from terrorists. They can just pick up and move. Like they did from Sudan to Afghanistan; they can and will move again. Will we follow them and bring democracy to the next country…and the next, and the next?

    Nation-building in the name of protection from terror is a senseless strategy that will not work. The military isn’t designed for it and not particularly good at it. Bush was wrong to do it and Obama is wrong to keep doing it.
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 09-24-09 at 01:16 AM.

  7. #137
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Masschusetts
    Last Seen
    03-01-14 @ 10:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,512

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    OK, there are some things that need to be said on this thread.
    Truths about 9/11:

    The 9/11 terrorists did not prepare for the 9/11 attacks in terrorist training camps in Afghanistan by climbing on monkey bars, crawling under barbedwire and aimlessly firing AK-47s into the desert. They plotted 9/11 by researching weaknesses and antiquated hijack policies and procedures in the commercial travel industry in America. They used and abused the rediculous U.S. student visa and green card policies. They enrolled in an American flight school and trained to fly by day…and enjoyed Gentlemen’s clubs by night.

    Those attacks were plotted over chai tea by organized criminals. Not over a campfire by battle-hardened insurgents.

    If the leaders of this country were SERIOUS about battling terrorism and protecting our country, we would:
    -Racially profile at U.S. airports and pressure other nations to do so.
    -Deny visas to any Arab male aged 18-50 named Mohammed or something similar
    -Protect our borders where they are vulnerable
    -Secure our ports and conduct rigorous inspection of incoming cargo.
    -See that the majority of our Homeland Security money goes to major target cities and landmarks.
    -Continue warrantless wiretapping international phone calls from and to suspected terror suspects.
    -Keep Guantanamo open and full.

    But we won’t do these things because they aren’t politically correct or acceptable by some in power. They would rather send American boys to die in a wasteland that has absolutely no chance in hell of ever becoming a functioning democracy of any kind. The people in Afghanistan are cavemen. They are too far behind the times to understand what we are trying to do for them. Furthermore, we do not possess the resources, manpower, military capability or political will to truly secure that country and make it a functioning democracy, rid of all Islamic fanatics. Even if we did, it is an impossible task. None of this matters anyway, because a free and democratic Afghanistan does not mean we are safe from terrorists. They can just pick up and move. Like they did from Sudan to Afghanistan; they can and will move again. Will we follow them and bring democracy to the next country…and the next, and the next?

    Nation-building in the name of protection from terror is a senseless strategy that will not work. The military isn’t designed for it and not particularly good at it. Bush was wrong to do it and Obama is wrong to keep doing it.
    I agree with some of your ideas & not with others. Your last sentence though.."Nation-building in the name of protection from terror is a senseless strategy that will not work. The military isn’t designed for it and not particularly good at it. Bush was wrong to do it and Obama is wrong to keep doing it."...Is absolutely right!
    (actually I agree with everything you say after this.."But we won’t do these things because they aren’t politically correct or acceptable by some in power.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-24-09 at 01:02 PM.

  8. #138
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,051

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I think our continued presence in Afghanistan makes us less safe here at home.....

    This makes absolutely no sense. It never did no mater who was stating it.

    In every single engagement around the world we have been involved in our enemies focused on the fight in their lands and at their door step. At no time did our enemies up and decide to fore sake the pressure in their face and come to America.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  9. #139
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Masschusetts
    Last Seen
    03-01-14 @ 10:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,512

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    This makes absolutely no sense. It never did no mater who was stating it.

    In every single engagement around the world we have been involved in our enemies focused on the fight in their lands and at their door step. At no time did our enemies up and decide to fore sake the pressure in their face and come to America.
    Less safe because we are unnecessarily making more enemies for no gain.

  10. #140
    Student LowRevs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Downeast in NC
    Last Seen
    07-12-12 @ 04:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    272

    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Less safe because we are unnecessarily making more enemies for no gain.
    These radicals threaten everyone's peace, lives and property, even in their home countries. Their neighboring countries are also threatened. So you're saying that more radicals are made to hate us. They do anyway. They also will kill us because they think us no more than ants to step on. We are simply showing them that they are wrong.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 412131415 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •