View Poll Results: Should the U.S. pull it's troops out of Afganistan?

Voters
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  • Yes. There is no possible victory there for us.

    11 17.19%
  • No. Stay & finish the job

    35 54.69%
  • Yes. Leave a mobil force in the area to fight terrorists/Taliban but leave Afganistan.

    15 23.44%
  • Pull all troops out of the area. It's not our fight.

    10 15.63%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    the People are in control, we own it. To tell us to shut up and sit down is telling the sovereign to piss off.
    But, do you consider the overall populace well-informed on the issues? That's part of the problem.

  2. #112
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Then don't volunteer other's kids.
    What can one say to such patently asinine hyper partisan rhetoric?

    No one is volunteering ANYONE's kids; they VOLUNTEER on their own.

    You are the poster child for "wrong."

  3. #113
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    This is an interesting one for me, because I'm not a military tactician, and it's not my job to make these kinds of decisions. But, I do listen to my two favorite military guys on the subject, and they're split, decisively. My boss is a former army colonel who spent time in Vietnam and was involved in military intelligence. My boyfriend is a navy commander who spent a year doing planning for the Army in Iraq (in Tikrit).

    They are evenly split on the issue. My boss believes that Afghanistan is where empires go to die, and that we are going to run into the same kind of quagmire we did in Vietnam there (and duplicate the Russian scenario).

    My boyfriend believes that Afghanistan is more important to stabilize than Iraq and that we need more troops there to do the job.

    Truthfully, I don't know what the answer is.
    Iím going with your boyfriend on this one; although your boss has historic facts with his remarks, he forgets that America is not an empire and we are not attempting empire building like those historic days he recounts.

  4. #114
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I've made my point quite often & clearly here but I'll say it again:

    It is not in U.S. interests to waste further American lives or treasure in a hopeless Bush/Neocon war where we can't even define what victory is, let alone ever expect to achieve it. We will be leaving that god forsaken country one day, so why not leave now & save American lives.
    I'm not saying we should just rush out of their hastily....We should let our forces have a leisurely lunch....& then get the hell out of the entire middle eat by 5:00PM!

    Clear enough?
    Ah yes, the old failed policy of getting ourselves out of the ME and this will miraculously make us safer and more secure in the future.

    Yes, let's pretend that our allies in particular, and ourselves are highly dependent on the vast petroleum reserves that reside deep in the sands of the ME and that terrorists and despots would like nothing more than to find a way to control them, and without our involvement, this goal might be achievable.

    Better yet, while we are pretending that this will solve our ME dilemma, we can also pretend that the UN is an effective organization that has Americas and her allies best interests in mind.

  5. #115
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Ah yes, the old failed policy of getting ourselves out of the ME and this will miraculously make us safer and more secure in the future.

    Yes, let's pretend that our allies in particular, and ourselves are highly dependent on the vast petroleum reserves that reside deep in the sands of the ME and that terrorists and despots would like nothing more than to find a way to control them, and without our involvement, this goal might be achievable.

    Better yet, while we are pretending that this will solve our ME dilemma, we can also pretend that the UN is an effective organization that has Americas and her allies best interests in mind.
    Staying their & making even more enemies does not advance our interests or make us anything but LESS safe here at home.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't know. My adviser is a specialist, he's a professor with a huge research program. Yet, he knows more about economics then most economists and we're well versed in international politics and such. I mean, I don't think I need to know the exact troop movements to be able to say that we should no longer be monkeying around in the ME the way we currently are. Just because someone may not be a self professed "expert" doesn't mean they can't have valid opinions especially on the broad, overall dynamics. Especially when it's the government, the People are in control, we own it. To tell us to shut up and sit down is telling the sovereign to piss off.
    Does anyone with a modicum of historic information and being unformed really think that if we abandon the Middle East the global political ramifications won't affect us?

    I am stunned when I see what appears to be relatively intelligent people making the claim that if we NEVER involved ourselves in the Middle East, we would not have been the targets of terrorists or that our economy and borders would be safer.

    Anyone versed in tactics and strategy will tell you that a better defense is a good strong offense. No fight has EVER, let me repeat, no fight has EVER been one by having a good defense.

    The ONLY reason America has been involved in the ME was due to the meddling and failures of Europe and other nations and the request of the global community to become the "middle man" in the negotiations between terrorists like Arafat and the PLO and the Israelis.

    America also, after initially being against it, went along with the creation of the Jewish State and now realizes that the world and America owes it to the Israeli's to stand by them and prevent their possible annihilation. Anything less is morally repugnant.

    So with that, how can anyone suggest that the best strategy now is to give up what over 4,500 young men and women have given up already and the thousands lost on 9-11 because the job is just too hard? I find those opinions and positions stunningly short sighted and incredibly uninformed.

  7. #117
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Staying their & making even more enemies does not advance our interests or make us anything but LESS safe here at home.
    Suggesting that we are making more enemies is nothing more than hyperbolic BS that is born from ignorance and falling for Bin Laden terrorist propaganda where there are no CREDIBLE facts to support such uninformed conclusions.

    What makes your argument even more laughable is that it also requires taking the position that we caused the terrorist attacks on 9-11 because we werenít there creating enemies.

  8. #118
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Victory is killing or capturing Bin Laden.
    Osama Bin Laden is long dead in my opinion. I've been stating this for a couple years now. Think about it.....

    Historically this is a vain man. He made a local name for himself in college when he rallied for the twisted preachings of Qutb. His activism took him to Afghanistan where he would be a leader and a financier for his "holy" war against communism. When that was over he moved on to continue preaching the evils of capitalism, democracy, pan-Arabism, socialism, and communism while forming pocket organizations in the Balkans and in Africa. And he was very fond of putting his image on video tape.

    Why would this stop just around the moment Al-Queda staring taking beating in Iraq? With the Tali-Ban being slaughtered wherever they emerge and Al-Queda being little more than a bloody stump at this point, wouldn't a video image of Osama Bin Laden still defying the evil American empire be the moral boost so desperately needed? They get only recordings. No real proof of life in them but a few references that could imply life (I hear Nostradamus has this ability even to this day too).

    But why would the Tali-Ban and Al-Queda need him to appear alive? Because the ignorant misguided souls still prepared to travel across the region to die for his God might be dissuaded if the Tali-Ban's great protector was dead. Because Al-Queda is more of an idea these days and still needs the illusion of a fearless leader to even breathe.

    And why would the CIA shy from declaring his probable death? Because without Osama Bin Laden to hunt down...why are we there? And considering how screwed up this area of the Middle East is and the close proximity of nuclear weapons...

    - Pakistan's Cold War with India to the East
    - Iran's lust for the ultimate weapon to the west

    ...we have to be there (in one way or another).



    But who knows? Maybe he is alive still and simply forsaking his own natural tendency for attention and leadership in the name of his God. Maybe giving his Islamic fighters absolutely no hope is a new tactic. After all...How long did it take to get the Unibomber in our own lands?

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  9. #119
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Does anyone with a modicum of historic information and being unformed really think that if we abandon the Middle East the global political ramifications won't affect us?

    I am stunned when I see what appears to be relatively intelligent people making the claim that if we NEVER involved ourselves in the Middle East, we would not have been the targets of terrorists or that our economy and borders would be safer.

    Anyone versed in tactics and strategy will tell you that a better defense is a good strong offense. No fight has EVER, let me repeat, no fight has EVER been one by having a good defense.

    The ONLY reason America has been involved in the ME was due to the meddling and failures of Europe and other nations and the request of the global community to become the "middle man" in the negotiations between terrorists like Arafat and the PLO and the Israelis.

    America also, after initially being against it, went along with the creation of the Jewish State and now realizes that the world and America owes it to the Israeli's to stand by them and prevent their possible annihilation. Anything less is morally repugnant.

    So with that, how can anyone suggest that the best strategy now is to give up what over 4,500 young men and women have given up already and the thousands lost on 9-11 because the job is just too hard? I find those opinions and positions stunningly short sighted and incredibly uninformed.
    Holy logic leap batman! Nothing you quoted suggests any of that. That's your supposition and preconceived notions.

    But I find it stunning that people keep bringing up the deaths from terrorist attack and soldiers being lost in Iraq as excuse to engage in activities which will cause more death. If you were really interested in preventing those deaths, you'd seek alternatives which doesn't lead to more Americans dying.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    I supported the war in Afghanistan until it unnecessarily bled into Iraq, then I saw the campaign for what it was. I saw genuine strategic and structural good in invading Afghanistan, but like with most Western campaigns, too many people saw dollar signs and power play opportunities with old foes, and the good was lost. Now we are just trying to maintain a status quo as Western nations withdraw one by one. Canada will be doing so in 2011.

    I agree with GySgt when he says that Bin Laden is dead, and he probably has been for a while. The fact that it isn't being announced goes to show that the whole premise for the war was bogus. I'm not saying 9-11 was a conspiracy. It was a real event that provided a well timed pretext. That's all.

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