View Poll Results: Should the U.S. pull it's troops out of Afganistan?

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  • Yes. There is no possible victory there for us.

    11 17.19%
  • No. Stay & finish the job

    35 54.69%
  • Yes. Leave a mobil force in the area to fight terrorists/Taliban but leave Afganistan.

    15 23.44%
  • Pull all troops out of the area. It's not our fight.

    10 15.63%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is this the Rumsfeld defense? I'm not too keen on thinking it's valid.
    Not necessarily. I'm not a Rumsfeld fan. However, I am rather keen on General David Petraeus.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Locals do police work?
    What have I been doing all my life.....Pumping gas??
    The average local will work approximately 10 times more cases in his/her career than the average DEA agent. Just sayin.' I work with DEA, ATF, FBI, USAO, and others. I am very familiar with what they do.

    Different workload, different standards, different jobs.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Not necessarily. I'm not a Rumsfeld fan. However, I am rather keen on General David Petraeus.
    Yeah but the whole "trust us, we know what we're doing. This is hard stuff, we're smarter than you and know what to do, so you need to shut up and sit down and just support us" sort of mantra never sat right with me. Especially when coming out of the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah but the whole "trust us, we know what we're doing. This is hard stuff, we're smarter than you and know what to do, so you need to shut up and sit down and just support us" sort of mantra never sat right with me. Especially when coming out of the government.
    I think it's a fine balance. The simple fact of the matter is that most policy issues are now rather more complicated than they were 50 or 100 years ago. I've spent 19 years learning my field. My perspective is obviously going to be more informed than the average guy on the street.

    For the record, the military takes advice from people like me on my field of expertise. I prefer taking advice from them on military matters. That doesn't mean that I don't have a responsibility to be informed, but there is simply no way that I can understand military tactical decisions as well as someone who has done it for 20 years. I have no shame in admitting that.

    Similarly, economics. Stekim is my god when it comes to econ. He knows the issues backwards and forwards and upside down. I'm a specialist. I don't have time to understand those issues like he does. So, I find someone who knows the subject and appears to be headed in the right direction, and I listen to that guy.

    I think we all do that on many subjects. There is simply no way for us to be equally informed on all subjects. There is too much information out there to learn it all.

  5. #105
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The average local will work approximately 10 times more cases in his/her career than the average DEA agent. Just sayin.' I work with DEA, ATF, FBI, USAO, and others. I am very familiar with what they do.

    Different workload, different standards, different jobs.
    10 times more cases?...Why is that important?
    Police work should not be graded on the number of cases worked but on the importance of the case & the sucess of the prosecutions.
    In point of fact, I'll stack the hours the average DEA agent works against a state or local any day.
    We DEA agents get what's called "Premium Pay" which means we get paid for working 10 extra hours per week....or 50 hours instead of the usual 40 that most government employees work.

    We get paid for 50 hrs a week but actually work more like 70-80 hrs per week &....god help any DEA agent that reports more than 50 hours on his/her time slip!
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 11:20 AM.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    10 times more cases?...Why is that important?
    Police work should not be graded on the number of cases worked but on the importance of the case & the sucess of the prosecutions. In point of fact, I'll stack the hours the average DEA agent works against a state or local any day.
    If you're good, you don't need to work 50 hours a day, or pillage local intelligence files, or burn local CIs. Just sayin.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If you're good, you don't need to work 50 hours a day, or pillage local intelligence files, or burn local CIs. Just sayin.
    That's BS & you should know it if you really are familiar with poilce work at the federal level. Cases take time & surveillance is usually round the clock. C.I.'s need to be cultivated, protected & often "sweet talked."
    You work with the feds you say....Ever heard of Task Forces?
    (they are groups of DEA agents, state & locals all working together out o a DEA field office & they are very effective!..Typically the state & locals know the people better & have the C.I.'s......We feds usually have the money they need to make big buys & for "Flash Rolls" as we (hopefully) move up the food chain)
    Anyway....I lost what my point was ....


    So..........Take That!!


    Edit: Now I remember my point!!

    My point was all these things take lots of time so anyone who tells you tbhat feds can works successfully with bankers hours is full of you know what!
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 11:30 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    That's BS & you should know it if you really are familiar with poilce work at the federal level. Cases take time & surveillance is usually round the clock. C.I.'s need to be cultivated, protected & often "sweet talked."
    You work with the feds you say....Ever heard of Task Forces?
    (they are groups of DEA agents, state & locals all working together out o a DEA field office & they are very effective!..Typically the state & locals know the people better & have the C.I.'s......We feds usually have the money they need to make big buys & for "Flash Rolls" as we (hopefully) move up the food chain)
    Anyway....I lost what my point was ....


    So..........Take That!!
    I worked for a multijurisdictional task force for five years. And the only reason that the locals EVER want to work with DEA is for money.

    But, we can discuss this elsewhere rather than mucking up this thread with the locals vs. feds discussion.

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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I worked for a multijurisdictional task force for five years. And the only reason that the locals EVER want to work with DEA is for money.

    But, we can discuss this elsewhere rather than mucking up this thread with the locals vs. feds discussion.
    I agree both about the money & a different thread.
    (but what's wrong with needing us for the additional resources (both technical & monetary) that we can bring to bare?...(or is it bear....always confuse those in this type of sentence))
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 11:46 AM.

  10. #110
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    Re: Should We Get Out Of Afganistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think it's a fine balance. The simple fact of the matter is that most policy issues are now rather more complicated than they were 50 or 100 years ago. I've spent 19 years learning my field. My perspective is obviously going to be more informed than the average guy on the street.

    For the record, the military takes advice from people like me on my field of expertise. I prefer taking advice from them on military matters. That doesn't mean that I don't have a responsibility to be informed, but there is simply no way that I can understand military tactical decisions as well as someone who has done it for 20 years. I have no shame in admitting that.

    Similarly, economics. Stekim is my god when it comes to econ. He knows the issues backwards and forwards and upside down. I'm a specialist. I don't have time to understand those issues like he does. So, I find someone who knows the subject and appears to be headed in the right direction, and I listen to that guy.

    I think we all do that on many subjects. There is simply no way for us to be equally informed on all subjects. There is too much information out there to learn it all.
    I don't know. My adviser is a specialist, he's a professor with a huge research program. Yet, he knows more about economics then most economists and we're well versed in international politics and such. I mean, I don't think I need to know the exact troop movements to be able to say that we should no longer be monkeying around in the ME the way we currently are. Just because someone may not be a self professed "expert" doesn't mean they can't have valid opinions especially on the broad, overall dynamics. Especially when it's the government, the People are in control, we own it. To tell us to shut up and sit down is telling the sovereign to piss off.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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