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Thread: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

  1. #51
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So far.....out of 36 poll respondents, only 5 are identifying themselves as Republicans, & I don't think DP is a bastion of liberal voters.
    While this is not a scientific study by any means, I do think it's a decent indication of the trouble today's GOP has in trying to win future national elections.
    You screw yourself up by the language you yourself use. You talk about republicans and democrats, but then talk about how DP is hardly a LIBERAL bastion.

    You're correct, its got a fair mix, with potentially more conservatives than liberals (though at this current time of active posters I'd dare say its at the closest split we've had in some time).

    HOWEVER, your question has nothing to do with the conservative bend on the forum, but specifically about parties people are affiliated with.

    DP has a pretty decent cadre of Libertarians for one. Two, since 2006 there's been a number of people who are soundly conservative, who soundly vote republican, but no longer identify themselves with that party.

    You are trying to postulate that somehow low numbers of people that identify as "Republicans" will hurt them at the voting box. I think this is a faulty and illogical assumptions based on little facts and a misreading of the evidence presented. For this to be the case all, or at least a large portion, of those conservatives who did not identify themselves as part of the Republican Party would need to either vote 3rd party, vote democrats, or not vote. I would dare say, from the history and statements of many of these posters, that in reality the majority of said people would still be voting for the Republican nominee in electoins. As such, just because they don't identify themselves with the Republican Party at this current moment does not mean it will cause any damage or noticable shift in the Republicans votes.

    This becomes even more true when, by examining your previous posts, its patentedly obvious why you think the issue CURRENTLY is happening...IE the attacks on Health Care. However, the majority of those not identifying with the GOP started doing so long before the Health Care debate was truly raging. Indeed, I dare say I don't know of a single, solitary, person on this forum that listed themselves as a Republican who has changed their party identification due to Health Care.

    On the contrary, the majority of those that now don't claim to be part of the Republican Party did so back in 2006 due to anger at the fiscal irresponsability and failure to uphold the principles of conservatism by many in office, or in 2008 when a moderate republican who made a career the past 8 years of insulting conservatives and screwing over those in his ideology became the parties choice for President. In both those cases, the complaint that caused the migration was NOT that they were unhappy with conservatism but really just the opposite, that they were unhappy with the lack of well rounded conservatism. To then turn around and insinuate and assume that somehow Republicans actually sticking to their principles for once, less government intervention in our private lives and increase in the size and scope of government, is preposterous.

    So no, I fully reject you're hypothesis for the reason above, along with the fact that people tend to more readily identify with the party that fits their lean when that party is in power, on top of the fact you actually acknowledged in that this is a sampling of a few dozen people on a debate site which in and of itself means people generally more interested in politics than the average person. I don't believe the lack of people self identifying as "republicans" is going to hurt the GOP at the ballot box, and dare say that the acts of the majority of reasonable republicans currently in fighting against the auto-buyouts, fighting government ran health care, fighting any increases in taxes, fighting cap and trade, etc may end up actually helping them comparitive to 2006 and 2008. While the idiotic attacks from a vocal minority are just that, idiotic, I do not foresee any reason why they should be any more damaging than those same attacks that implied that the Bush White House knew about and purposefully allowed 9/11 to happen or that the government was peeking completely unchecked at every American whenever and however they wanted...let alone all the childish "dumbo" like attacks... and other such absurd notions that came out over 8 years.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    You are trying to postulate that somehow low numbers of people that identify as "Republicans" will hurt them at the voting box. I think this is a faulty and illogical assumptions based on little facts and a misreading of the evidence presented. For this to be the case all, or at least a large portion, of those conservatives who did not identify themselves as part of the Republican Party would need to either vote 3rd party, vote democrats, or not vote. I would dare say, from the history and statements of many of these posters, that in reality the majority of said people would still be voting for the Republican nominee in electoins. As such, just because they don't identify themselves with the Republican Party at this current moment does not mean it will cause any damage or noticable shift in the Republicans votes.
    If I'm reading you correctly, I think what I'm hearing you say is that just because many ex-Republicans are dissatisfied with the present GOP & have been for many years now, that THAT will not hurt the GOP in future elections???

    If that is what you're saying I disagree. Political parties cannot thrive if they have no real support but simply rely on people voting against their opponents. I think most voters want to believe IN something & not just AGAINST things.

    Let's look at a specific example:
    How many votes do you suppose McCain lost when disaffected Republicans split the GOP vote & voted for Ron Paul?.....Granted, that did not alone lose the election for the GOP, but I think it was a factor which is increasing...not decreasing.
    I only see that situation worsening for the GOP as more & more ex-Republicans search for a party that truly represents conservatives again & drops the Born-Again, Nation Building, Crusading Neocons who presently lead the GOP.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-10-09 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    You guys can come up with all kinds of fantasy explanations for the Republican Party's woes ("they have abandoned traditional conservatism" and so on), but its actually quite simple. The GOP's traditional demographic, angry white men over 40 and conservative evangelicals, is a shrinking one. Until the party moderates and thus expands its base, it will most likely continue to lose national elections baring some complete implosion on the part of the Democrats.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You guys can come up with all kinds of fantasy explanations for the Republican Party's woes ("they have abandoned traditional conservatism" and so on), but its actually quite simple. The GOP's traditional demographic, angry white men over 40 and conservative evangelicals, is a shrinking one. Until the party moderates and thus expands its base, it will most likely continue to lose national elections baring some complete implosion on the part of the Democrats.
    That too!!

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You guys can come up with all kinds of fantasy explanations for the Republican Party's woes ("they have abandoned traditional conservatism" and so on), but its actually quite simple. The GOP's traditional demographic, angry white men over 40 and conservative evangelicals, is a shrinking one. Until the party moderates and thus expands its base, it will most likely continue to lose national elections baring some complete implosion on the part of the Democrats.
    There is some truth to this, but I don't think it tells the whole story. I worry that we see what you talk about, and forget the cyclic nature of politics that seems to be happening currently. Republicans will regain power at some point, if for no other reason than it's easier to gain support when you are out of power and can blame everything that goes wrong on those in power. If republicans don't grow their base, it may take awhile before they get power again, but it will happen.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    If I'm reading you correctly, I think what I'm hearing you say is that just because many ex-Republicans are dissatisfied with the present GOP & have been for many years now, that THAT will not hurt the GOP in future elections???

    If that is what you're saying I disagree. Political parties cannot thrive if they have no real support but simply rely on people voting against their opponents. I think most voters want to believe IN something & not just AGAINST things.

    Let's look at a specific example:
    How many votes do you suppose McCain lost when disaffected Republicans split the GOP vote & voted for Ron Paul?.....Granted, that did not alone lose the election for the GOP, but I think it was a factor which is increasing...not decreasing.
    I only see that situation worsening for the GOP as more & more ex-Republicans search for a party that truly represents conservatives again & drops the Born-Again, Nation Building, Crusading Neocons who presently lead the GOP.
    No, I'm not saying that people being disatisfied with the GOP won't hurt them. What I'm saying is based on your statements here and in other threads about this topic I don't believe the REASON you think people are disatisfied with the GOP is correct, and thus are over shooting your hypothesis here. (I'm referencing the "did the republicans go to far" thread).

    I do think that the next 4 to 12 years are going to be make or break times for the GOP. If they manage to take back a majority in either house or take over the Presidency then how they act once doing that is going to be huge, and to a lesser extent even who their nominee's are.

    If Republicans get back into power and you have a similar problem that happened in the past 8 years I do think there is going to be extremely hard time for the GOP ahead. However, I think its going to need to happen that second time. The whole "Fool me once, fool me twice" type of situation. America, as has said often, is a very forgiving country and I think that the majority of conservative voters are going to be giving the Republicans one more good shot to see if they can actually do and act like they represented themselves when getting voted in.

    While I agree with you in regards to nation building and such, I reject the notion again that...no surprise, yet again, its only a liberal democrat pushing it...the republicans must shun their social side to be viable, or that somehow is what will save them, is foolish and will do nothing but further expediate the stagnation of the Republican Party. The answer is not jettisoning a group, but balancing out the platform amongst all groups.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Devil, when did you become a moderate? Did you fall and hit your head on the ground this morning? If your views are those of a moderate, then God help us all.

    I left the Republican party a few years ago. They abandoned their fiscally conservative principles in favor of special interests and big government. Until they return to their principles, they can no longer count me as "one of theirs". I'd say I fall more in line with the Libertarian party than I do with the Republican party, but I've never been one to "toe the line" of any party.

    Ron Paul? He seems to have influenced you, if not youtube him.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    While I agree with you in regards to nation building and such, I reject the notion again that...no surprise, yet again, its only a liberal democrat pushing it...the republicans must shun their social side to be viable, or that somehow is what will save them, is foolish and will do nothing but further expediate the stagnation of the Republican Party. The answer is not jettisoning a group, but balancing out the platform amongst all groups.

    If I might add something here, the big issue right now is jobs. People are not working, they don't have the money to buy anything and the U.S. as a whole are spending three times what the GDP of the nation has been for about six years now. Taxes are high, and penalize production. Evasion is a big issue as well, the tax code is overly complicated and favors the rich who can afford to higher a legal team to cheat the system. Criminals are not exactly willing to disclose how much they earned either due to self incrimination. We need a better tax system, and stop spending more than we earn. What ever party can do this will probably be elected.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, I'm not saying that people being disatisfied with the GOP won't hurt them. What I'm saying is based on your statements here and in other threads about this topic I don't believe the REASON you think people are disatisfied with the GOP is correct, and thus are over shooting your hypothesis here. (I'm referencing the "did the republicans go to far" thread).
    OK.....So why do YOU think many conservatives are dissatisfied with the GOP? (specifically, where have I misread their dissatisfaction?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If Republicans get back into power and you have a similar problem that happened in the past 8 years I do think there is going to be extremely hard time for the GOP ahead. However, I think its going to need to happen that second time. The whole "Fool me once, fool me twice" type of situation. America, as has said often, is a very forgiving country and I think that the majority of conservative voters are going to be giving the Republicans one more good shot to see if they can actually do and act like they represented themselves when getting voted in.
    America is a forgiving nation but today's GOP leaders admit no blame, feel no guilt & want to pretend that the last 8 years never happened. They are not asking for forgiveness & obviously don't feel the need to do so.
    So.....Why should anyone think they will change in the future?
    You are a conservative...Have you heard any GOP leader accept blame for anything, express remorse for fiscal irresponsibility for the last 8 years & explain how they would be different if given ultimate power in the future?
    I sure haven't heard any of that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    While I agree with you in regards to nation building and such, I reject the notion again that...no surprise, yet again, its only a liberal democrat pushing it.....the republicans must shun their social side to be viable, or that somehow is what will save them, is foolish and will do nothing but further expediate the stagnation of the Republican Party. The answer is not jettisoning a group, but balancing out the platform amongst all groups..
    If it's true...what difference does it make who says it?....But, in reality..I never said that.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-10-09 at 11:59 AM.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    I'm registered independent and plan on keeping it that way.

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