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Thread: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

  1. #141
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    a third party will take decades to grow big enough and even then it will split the conservative vote every time, for the democrats. the libertarians would be better off sticking with the GOP and using it to win themselves some elections. the GOP could use them too.
    I don't agree. I don't think selling out my principles and platform would help me in the least.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't agree. I don't think selling out my principles and platform would help me in the least.
    I agree with you. Basically what he is saying is that no matter how the GOP sells out its conservative values, they are OWED blind allegiance & cannot ever be held accountable for that selling out!
    No Thanks!! (get a new party going that appeals to moderates & you'll OWN this country!
    Until then, I'll stick with the Dems & just try to get them to swing more conservative. (The Dems have a large party that includes many conservatives...like the Blue Dogs...who are practically Repubs anyway!)The current GOP has a tiny party (just look at the numbers here) & tolerates NO DECENT among its ranks!

    Run afoul of Rush Limbaugh & you're out!!
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-14-09 at 07:29 PM.

  3. #143
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I agree with you. Basically what he is saying is that no matter how the GOP sells out its conservative values, they are OWED blind allegiance & cannot ever be held accountable for that selling out!
    No Thanks!! (get a new party going that appeals to moderates & you'll OWN this country!
    I think what he is saying is that rather than abandon the GOP one should work to change it from within. I disagree that it is changable from within, I think it is well captured by interests not of its conservative roots. It's fine for wanting to move a party one way or another, and if the system is fair and open you have some ability at that. But I think the GOP and the Democrats have for too long been unchallenged as the dominate parties and have stagnated. Instead they are beholden to special interests and lobbiests and their goal isn't so much to push their agenda and platform, but rather to stay in power. So long as there are an unrivalable 2, that's accomplished.

    The point about letting the liberals win is that if enough people left the GOP, it would loose too much of its base and it would be unable to capture elections. In such a case, what is defined as the greater evil then wins; the liberals will always get in since basically almost all national elections come down to a 50/50 split + noise. But enough base retention is necessary to keep the 50/50 so that the noise is what elections get based on. Without the 50/50, it's much harder for the lacking party to get elected. My point is that is exactly what you want, well at least now that the GOP has moved so far down the road of fascism. You may have to take some liberal wins to force the GOP back, and if you actively vote third party you can put even more pressure on by showing that you're not just a lost vote but you're a supporter of another team. So long as you don't go democrat, since your opposition will get lost in that mess.

    In the end, the Republocrats represent the status quo. Either or, you're not going to get much difference. Which is why the Obama administration has thus far looked very similar to the Bush administration. Support of the status quo can't change the status quo. And if the status quo is evil, then you should be even more opposed to supporting it. Changing from within is dead. The only way to change the GOP is to make it unable to win elections, as their main goal is maintaining power. That, or the best option is to replace it. Though that one is really tough in the selective, limited, restricted system the Republocrats have currently set up. I think it's good to change over parties every once in awhile. Keep them honest I say.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #144
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    If that's why you think the GOP has been getting it's head handed to it (in national elections since 2006) then I suggest you get better informed about politics.
    (I don't consider myself a strict Democrat but I have not had a real choice in nat'l elections in many years now. To me, the GOP no longer represent conservatives, they represent elderly, white, rural evangelicals & are a dying regional party, at this point)

    Holy Mackerel!

    2006?

    You really go way back don't ya?

  5. #145
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't agree. I don't think selling out my principles and platform would help me in the least.
    I wouldn't advise anyone to sell out.

  6. #146
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I agree with you. Basically what he is saying is that no matter how the GOP sells out its conservative values, they are OWED blind allegiance & cannot ever be held accountable for that selling out!
    are you talking about me? because

    a. I am a girl
    b. that is not what I am saying. I don't need you paraphrasing me, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    No Thanks!! (get a new party going that appeals to moderates & you'll OWN this country!
    a Democrat telling Republicans to split their party in half...you're starting to sound like disneydude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Until then, I'll stick with the Dems & just try to get them to swing more conservative.
    are you having any success? I would be astonished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Run afoul of Rush Limbaugh & you're out!!
    I don't understand; did he kick you out? who has he kicked out?

  7. #147
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think what he is saying is that rather than abandon the GOP one should work to change it from within. I disagree that it is changable from within, I think it is well captured by interests not of its conservative roots. It's fine for wanting to move a party one way or another, and if the system is fair and open you have some ability at that. But I think the GOP and the Democrats have for too long been unchallenged as the dominate parties and have stagnated. Instead they are beholden to special interests and lobbiests and their goal isn't so much to push their agenda and platform, but rather to stay in power. So long as there are an unrivalable 2, that's accomplished.

    The point about letting the liberals win is that if enough people left the GOP, it would loose too much of its base and it would be unable to capture elections. In such a case, what is defined as the greater evil then wins; the liberals will always get in since basically almost all national elections come down to a 50/50 split + noise. But enough base retention is necessary to keep the 50/50 so that the noise is what elections get based on. Without the 50/50, it's much harder for the lacking party to get elected. My point is that is exactly what you want, well at least now that the GOP has moved so far down the road of fascism. You may have to take some liberal wins to force the GOP back, and if you actively vote third party you can put even more pressure on by showing that you're not just a lost vote but you're a supporter of another team. So long as you don't go democrat, since your opposition will get lost in that mess.

    In the end, the Republocrats represent the status quo. Either or, you're not going to get much difference. Which is why the Obama administration has thus far looked very similar to the Bush administration. Support of the status quo can't change the status quo. And if the status quo is evil, then you should be even more opposed to supporting it. Changing from within is dead. The only way to change the GOP is to make it unable to win elections, as their main goal is maintaining power. That, or the best option is to replace it. Though that one is really tough in the selective, limited, restricted system the Republocrats have currently set up. I think it's good to change over parties every once in awhile. Keep them honest I say.
    Ideally it would be best to just get more partys, especially ones for people who have principles political views.

    However, since the ellectoral systems in America (not just for president) have a much stronger winner-take-all mechanism, it is much harder for smaller partys to get any power.


    Even though I don't like the idea of a political party picking their representives based on the percentage of the votes they get (say for the house) then that is the only way to get some third party power.

    The whole idea of a constitutency of some countys in a state doesn't really work for that, but the loss of that is still worth more differing views in American politics.


    Even though I didn't vote for a major candidate for the presidential ellection, I know that there still needs to be some sort of work INSIDE of the partys to get the mechanisms to allow for third party candidates.

  8. #148
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    The current GOP has a tiny party (just look at the numbers here) & tolerates NO DECENT among its ranks![/B]
    I completely disagree, the Republicans ran a very moderate candidate of John McCain for president and they also have lost all of their principles in small government. They are completely fine with very classical anti-Republican views in their party.

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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    a third party will take decades to grow big enough and even then it will split the conservative vote every time, for the democrats. the libertarians would be better off sticking with the GOP and using it to win themselves some elections. the GOP could use them too.
    You are 100% right.

  10. #150
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    Re: What Political Party Would You Consider Yourself Now A Member Of?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I wouldn't advise anyone to sell out.
    Then libertarians wouldn't do better by sticking with the GOP. I loved the GOP. When I was in high school, I aligned heavily with the GOP. I carried around Rush's books to classes all the time, I listened to him as much as possible. Registered Republican at 18, got an autographed picture of Newt Gingrich. I was in the College Republicans when I was an undergrad. Loved the party. Voted for GW in the primary and his first Presidential election, thought Al Gore would have been a disaster (though that's probably still true). I didn't leave the party, the party left me. I hold strong convictions of proper government, our role in international politics, and the rights and liberties of the individual. I can't support a candidate or party which is counter to that. GOP no longer stands for that, they're a big government party now; just like the damned Democrats. They won't change; at least not if people polarize things to such an extent that it's only consideration is a lesser of two evils. And at this point, I don't think I want them to change. I want them gone. For the good of the Republic, I think the GOP needs to die. Replace it with a real small government, pro responsibility, anti imperialism party. The GOP has shown its lack of resolve and spine. It can be bought, it can not be trusted.

    I'd love nothing more than to have a national party to believe in. So I can see my candidates get on air and get their messages out there and know that they'll always be able to participate. It's nice to be able to believe in a major party. It's comforting, there's security in it. But I can't support the Republocrats. I cannot bear to vote for big government bastards wanting nothing more than to expand their power at the cost of my liberty. To get my vote, you must have a similar platform to my own. The GOP left me, left all small government disciples. I need real commitment from a party if I'm going to endorse it. To know that if I get my candidate in, they will work for what it is they believe in, what I believe in. I don't have that with the GOP.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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