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Have the Republican Gone Too Far in Criticizing Obama

Read the post and answer accordingly please


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The whole movie was an insult, scurrilous attack, endorsed by many mainstream Democrats and one former Democrat President, and that you haven't seen it doesn't mean it wasn't.

Have links proving your implication that the movie was created by the Dem Party itself?
Any links connecting the official Dem party to that movie?

Moore is a bit of a nut job & he doesn't speak for the Dem party the way........say a Senator DeMint (let;'s "Break" Obama over HC) or Senator Grassley does.
 
I think both sides go well off topic in their attacks on each other. The left did it to Bush, the right is doing it to Obama. The whole lot of it is nothing more than childish school yard antics but it seems that America has the attention span of a goldfish (which would explain things like Daisey of Love) and we can't keep anything of it straight or demand proper critique and political exercise. I think some of the attacks on Obama are pointless partisan drivel, but the same was true for Bush. If people want to fix the problem, they have to go after both sides and they have to stop themselves.
I could agree with your above opinion except in degree. I agree that both sides of the aisle engage in silly partisan BS.....to a degree....but the GOP leadership has raised this absurdity to an "Art Form" .;)
 
Have links proving your implication that the movie was created by the Dem Party itself?
Any links connecting the official Dem party to that movie?

Moore is a bit of a nut job & he doesn't speak for the Dem party the way........say a Senator DeMint (let;'s "Break" Obama over HC) or Senator Grassley does.

I never said or implied that it was created by the Dem Party itself; that's a scandalous lie. But then, you do have exceptional difficulty comprehending what I read, even though it's always written in plain English.

Crashing The Party | The New Republic

In late June, Moore had a VIP screening of Fahrenheit 9/11 at Washington, D.C.'s Uptown Theater. In attendance were a host of prominent Democrats--including Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, Florida Senator Bob Graham, California Senator Barbara Boxer, and numerous members of the Congressional Black Caucus. Even some of Fahrenheit 9/11's favorite targets, such as Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle-- who Moore mercilessly lampoons in the movie for being insufficiently opposed to Bush and the war in Iraq--dutifully showed up. (After the screening, Moore told Time, Daschle "gave me a hug and said he felt bad and that we were all gonna fight from now on. I thanked him for being a good sport.")

Carter invited Moore to sit in his box at the 2004 Democratic convention after seeing the film.

dnc7.jpg


Honestly, if you were at all informed about the Bush years, this is stuff you would already know. But extremely polarized ideological lenses prevent one from being informed, I guess. Only seeing what you want to see is no way to go through life.

You'd hardly be alone, though.
 
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Crashing The Party | The New Republic



Carter invited Moore to sit in his box at the 2004 Democratic convention after seeing the film.

dnc7.jpg


Honestly, if you were at all informed about the Bush years, this is stuff you would already know. But extremely polarized ideological lenses prevent one from being informed, I guess. Only seeing what you want to see is no way to go through life.

You'd hardly be alone, though.





I'll reprint my above response here too:

I could agree with your above opinion except in degree. I agree that both sides of the aisle engage in silly partisan BS.....to a degree....but the GOP leadership has raised this absurdity to an "Art Form" .;)
 
The idea is this: Any party out of power is going to be critical of those in power. This is the natural order, and simply put, it's easier to get a negative message out, and often more effective. What I wonder these days is if the natural tendency to do this has not escalated to the point where it will end up hurting the republicans. For some examples:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-political-scandal-du-jour/47470-first-lady-michelle-obama-steps-out-lanvin-sneakers-theyre-only-540-a.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/49268-obamas-date-night-new-york-city-draws-criticism-edited.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-political-scandal-du-jour/46201-obama-disgrace-bows-another-leader-wtf.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/55529-president-obama-s-address-students-across-america-september-8-2009-a.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/38541-53-reasons-obama-ineligable-election-fraud-mccain-too-old.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/51755-so-where-obama-born-again-hosp.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-partisan-politics-political-platforms/49510-emergence-president-obamas-muslim-roots.html

Stepping away from our liberal or conservatives ideologies, how do you think the independents and middle of the road types view these types of attacks? Is making attacks on these type of issues the right thing to do for republicans, is it going too far and going to hurt republicans, or won't it have any effect?

Edit: poll added.
it shores up their base, and seems to be scoring with independents, who might not be as smart as i thought they were.....;-)
 
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An iIllegal alien who should be deported

What GOP official suggested he IS an illegal alien and should be deported?

is close buddies with murdering terrorists
,

What GOP official suggested he's "Close buddies" with "murdering terrorists".

has a strong desire to kill our grandparents

Again. Quote me teh GOP official that stated "he has a strong desire to kill our grandparents"

wants to turn our country into a communists state

Quote me please. Also, note, you said turning it into a communist state, not attempting to emulate or enact some communist laws

has plans to take our guns away

Quote again.

both Casper Milquetoast & Adolf Hitler

Quote again.

& so on....ad infunitum.

You're the first one that make the accusation that these statements were somehow made by "officials". Please, lets see them.
 
I could agree with your above opinion except in degree. I agree that both sides of the aisle engage in silly partisan BS.....to a degree....but the GOP leadership has raised this absurdity to an "Art Form" .;)

This spirals out of control only because we've let it spiral out of control. We've rewarded this type of behavior on both sides, and now that's what they engage in. Ultimately any problem we have with government, with the press, with our Republic is our fault. It's our responsibility to keep the Republic and we're turning it into nothing more than a high drama show. The Republocrats are a problem, true. The Republocrats are out of control, they act improperly, they increase government and increase government while not thinking of our own rights and liberties. The Republocrats need to be punished, true. The only ones who can punish them are us.
 
Again, I am not right now talking about what happened under Bush. I am talking about current events.
Anyone that complains about the treatment The Obama is receiving that treated GWB in the same manner need not be taken seriously.

As for "have they gone too far"?
Free speech.
So long as what they do falls under it, they have every right to do it.
 
What GOP official suggested he IS an illegal alien and should be deported?
Many GOP Leaders still will not admit that Obama is an American. They still have doubts. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then he is an illegal alien by definition..... & what does the GOP want done with illegal aliens?....Deport them.
"Meanwhile, some Republican Congressmen are either skeptical about Obama's citizenship or unwilling to acknowledge it,"
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthers]Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
There are tons of limnks on the net to prominent Repubs who still push this nonsense. I don't have time to dig deeper right now.


What GOP official suggested he's "Close buddies" with "murdering terrorists".
Remember this? (Wasn;'t Palin the GOP's official VP candidate last year?)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi3oP74kMjA"]YouTube - Palin Criticizes Obama's 'Terrorist' Connection[/ame]
The whole GOP used that as a mantra last year.



Again. Quote me teh GOP official that stated "he has a strong desire to kill our grandparents"
All the GOP leaders who claim that Obama's HC plan will create bureaucrat Death Squads. I'll look for links later.


Given a few hours time, anyone could come up with You Tube links (alone, not to mention hundreds of other web sites) to back up every claim I made in my earlier post. I have neither the time nor inclination to do the research that anyone here can easily do.
Are you seriously denying those attacks have been made against Obama from GOP leaders (elected & media) ?
 
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The idea is this: Any party out of power is going to be critical of those in power. This is the natural order, and simply put, it's easier to get a negative message out, and often more effective. What I wonder these days is if the natural tendency to do this has not escalated to the point where it will end up hurting the republicans. For some examples:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-political-scandal-du-jour/47470-first-lady-michelle-obama-steps-out-lanvin-sneakers-theyre-only-540-a.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/49268-obamas-date-night-new-york-city-draws-criticism-edited.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-political-scandal-du-jour/46201-obama-disgrace-bows-another-leader-wtf.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/55529-president-obama-s-address-students-across-america-september-8-2009-a.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/38541-53-reasons-obama-ineligable-election-fraud-mccain-too-old.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/51755-so-where-obama-born-again-hosp.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-partisan-politics-political-platforms/49510-emergence-president-obamas-muslim-roots.html

Stepping away from our liberal or conservatives ideologies, how do you think the independents and middle of the road types view these types of attacks? Is making attacks on these type of issues the right thing to do for republicans, is it going too far and going to hurt republicans, or won't it have any effect?

Edit: poll added.

Yes, these types of attacks are absolutely ridiculous and I think absolutely the reputation of the Republican Party. However, I would expect nothing else from either the Republicans or Democrats. These types of issues about Palin's kids or Michelle Obama's shoes create a large smokescreen and distract people from having actual debates about public policy. That is why it is an absolute joke that partisan hacks like Glenn Beck, Keith Olbermann, Bill O'Reilly, and Ed Schultz (and their ilk) still are employed, and pose as "news sources" no less!! This is little to no actual news reported in this country, it is all show and for ratings. The American people have become politically uneducated, and it is because the partisan media refuses to actually do their job. We now allow moronic pundits and talking heads to formulate opinions for us, instead of debating the issues. It's much easier to listen to Beck and yell socialism, instead of debating why a particular policy might be socialist in nature and the ramifications for and against it. Just like last year it was easier to listen to Olbermann and yell facist without understanding what you're yelling or why you're yelling (other than the fact that Keith told you to, because he was told by MSNBC, who was told by GE, etc.). Yes, these types of attacks are stupid, and take away credence from actual policy disagreements people have with Obama. However, these types of attacks are not an aberration, rather they are systemic practices used by both parties. Until Americans can see past the right/left partisan paradigm, no real problems in America can be fixed. Instead, it will be a bunch of uneducated yelling because "Glenn Beck said Obama is a socialist" or "Keith Olbermann said a Republican is the Worst Person in the World for the 1,596 consecutive episode, so it must be true!!!". Just my two cents.
 
Many GOP Leaders still will not admit that Obama is an American. They still have doubts. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then he is an illegal alien by definition..... & what does the GOP want done with illegal aliens?....Deport them.
"Meanwhile, some Republican Congressmen are either skeptical about Obama's citizenship or unwilling to acknowledge it,"
Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are tons of limnks on the net to prominent Repubs who still push this nonsense. I don't have time to dig deeper right now.

I'm sorry, you stated GOP officials stated:

"[He is]An iIllegal alien who should be deported'

All that text and all I see is you dancing around saying "Well, no one said that, I just made it up"

Remember this?
The whole GOP used that as a mantra last year.

Why yes, yes I do.

I remember her saying he "pals around" with a terrorist.

Was he friendly with and been around a number of times with Bill Ayers?

Did Bill Ayers assist in attempted terrorist attacks?

and how is that comment equivilent to:

"is close buddies with murdering terrorists"

I pal around with my cubicle mates at work. I don't consider any of them "Close buddies". I'd never call any of them over for a party or a drink after work, but we "pal around" often at work. Also, I don't see where she said "murdering" terrorist, but simply terrorists that targetted this country.

I'm sorry that you couldn't find proof of what you claimed.

All the GOP leaders who claim that Obama's HC plan will create bureaucrat Death Squads. I'll look for links later.

Death Panels is the idiotic term they're using, and the belief that the health care plan creates them is different than stating he:

"has a strong desire to kill our grandparents "

Much like the health care debate, let me make something abudnantly clare to you.

When you make idiotic, asinine, ridiculous, untrue bull**** hyberbolic comments don't be surprised when people call you out on that very bull****. When you demand other people try to hold up to a standard, in this case actual politicians and members of the party stating the things, you best be able to back it up yourself. Don't tap dance around it, don't try to play the duck and weave game, because its all too easy to expose your poor debate.

YOU decided to be overly hyberbolic and exaggerate greatly and got called on it. Deal with it.
 
Many GOP Leaders still will not admit that Obama is an American.
Such as...?

They still have doubts. If Obama isn't a natural born citizen, then he is an illegal alien by definition
This is only true if the only other legal status other than 'natural born citizen' is 'illegal alien'.
This is obviously not the case.
 
I'm sorry, you stated GOP officials stated:

"[He is]An iIllegal alien who should be deported'

All that text and all I see is you dancing around saying "Well, no one said that, I just made it up"



Why yes, yes I do.

I remember her saying he "pals around" with a terrorist.

Was he friendly with and been around a number of times with Bill Ayers?

Did Bill Ayers assist in attempted terrorist attacks?

and how is that comment equivilent to:

"is close buddies with murdering terrorists"

I pal around with my cubicle mates at work. I don't consider any of them "Close buddies". I'd never call any of them over for a party or a drink after work, but we "pal around" often at work. Also, I don't see where she said "murdering" terrorist, but simply terrorists that targetted this country.

I'm sorry that you couldn't find proof of what you claimed.



Death Panels is the idiotic term they're using, and the belief that the health care plan creates them is different than stating he:

"has a strong desire to kill our grandparents "

Much like the health care debate, let me make something abudnantly clare to you.

When you make idiotic, asinine, ridiculous, untrue bull**** hyberbolic comments don't be surprised when people call you out on that very bull****. When you demand other people try to hold up to a standard, in this case actual politicians and members of the party stating the things, you best be able to back it up yourself. Don't tap dance around it, don't try to play the duck and weave game, because its all too easy to expose your poor debate.

YOU decided to be overly hyberbolic and exaggerate greatly and got called on it. Deal with it.

I like to use a bit of exaggeration to make my points, in the interest of keeping things a but lighter. Obviously, when I say the GOP claims Obama wants to kill your grandparents, that is what I'm doing & I think most forum readers get it.
My point again is that while both sides will embellish & stretch the truth occasionally, it is by far....more the signature of the GOP & is hurting their credibility much more than the Dems, & I point to actual election results since 2006 as my proof..
 
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I like to use a bit of exaggeration to make my points, in the interest of keeping things a but lighter. Obviously, when I say the GOP claims Obama wants to kill your grandparents, that is what I'm doing & I think most forum readers get it.
My point again is that while both sides will embellish & stretch the truth occasionally, it is by far....more the signature of the GOP & is hurting their credibility much more than the Dems, & I point to actual election results since 2006 as my proof..

The problem is when you're trying to make the argument that "Republicans are worse because they're arguments are more ridiculous"....and then you trump up, exaggerate, and use hyperbole in showing those republican points, thus being the one that CREATES the ridiculous points. Its like saying "Yeah, Democrats made outrageous statements about Bush", thinking that some democrats went "no blood for oil", and then going "Like saying Bush is personally sending off our soldiers to die because he gets a check from Halliburton for each one".

No, its not a "signature" of the GOP, no more than its of the left. Its a signature of politics sadly right now, left or right. Some on the left has been making asinine, over the top statements in regards to Bush and Co for the past 8 years. Pointing at a single election results is not "proving" anything, not to mention the fact that a plethora of variables go into said results, so much so that pointing at a single thing is ridiculous. You're just a blind hyper partisan so everything, EVERYTHING, must be worse on teh other side because by god their horrible and evil.

Yes, republicans have said some RIDICULOUS and IDIOTIC things about Obama. Absolutely mindboggling at times. But so too have Democrats for years done it to Bush. Neither side owns the monopoly or even the controlling interest in this, its simply a nature of politics in this country in recent times.
 
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I like to use a bit of exaggeration to make my points, in the interest of keeping things a but lighter. Obviously, when I say the GOP claims Obama wants to kill your grandparents, that is what I'm doing & I think most forum readers get it.
My point again is that while both sides will embellish & stretch the truth occasionally, it is by far....more the signature of the GOP & is hurting their credibility much more than the Dems, & I point to actual election results since 2006 as my proof..

It's funny that whenever you get called on your bull****, THAT'S when the "I like to use exaggeration" line comes out.

You call everyone you disagree with to account for their literal words (and even things they don't say), but you? Oh, no, you're just joshing to make a point. Even though you weren't, and would never say you were if you thought you had won the point.
 
No, its not a "signature" of the GOP, no more than its of the left.

I understand your above opinion, but my opinion is that the GOP relies on insulting (to the average voter) lies about their "Enemies" much more than the Dems do.
 
I understand your above opinion, but my opinion is that the GOP relies on insulting (to the average voter) lies about their "Enemies" much more than the Dems do.

Maybe they're just exaggerating to make a point.
 
"Have the Republican Gone Too Far in Criticizing Obama?"


answer: "NO"


/thread



;)
 
It's funny that whenever you get called on your bull****, THAT'S when the "I like to use exaggeration" line comes out.

You call everyone you disagree with to account for their literal words (and even things they don't say), but you? Oh, no, you're just joshing to make a point. Even though you weren't, and would never say you were if you thought you had won the point.

I'm not trying to "WIN" anything here. I stated my opinion...that the GOP uses lies & ridiculous, easily disproved BS much more than does any other political party, including the Dems.
I'm not telling you to change your beliefs, I'm simply pointing out that you are WRONG!!:lol::hammer:
 
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Okay.

You're opinions wrong. You have nothing to back it up but your hyperbolic over exaggerations. You're opinion is founded in nothing but your hyper partisan world view.

Lets move on.

I imagine there will be some push back but ultimately it'll take a major over the line critical comment from someone actually prominent in the party for it to have any real impact, and even that would need to be somewhere near election time. I have a feeling this will be a relatively net wash, with little effect either way, much like 2002 and 2004 was for the democrats. It'll take a few years of this for it to really set in, and at that point it could stand as much chance going in the republicans favor or against.
 
Always a possibility but........no one really believes that, including you I'm sure.;)

No one really believes you, either, including you, I"m sure. :roll:
 
I'm not trying to "WIN" anything here. I stated my opinion...that the GOP uses lies & ridiculous, easily disproved BS much more than does any other political party, including the Dems.
I'm not telling you to change your beliefs, I'm simply pointing out that you are WRONG!!:lol::hammer:


No . . . you made a bunch of crap up and couldn't defend it.
 
Lets move on.

I imagine there will be some push back but ultimately it'll take a major over the line critical comment from someone actually prominent in the party for it to have any real impact, and even that would need to be somewhere near election time. I have a feeling this will be a relatively net wash, with little effect either way, much like 2002 and 2004 was for the democrats. It'll take a few years of this for it to really set in, and at that point it could stand as much chance going in the republicans favor or against.

A fair observation & one that is quite possible, but is not the only possibility.
I think it is equally possible that no single, egregious "critical comment from someone actually prominent in the party"....will be needed to cause this "Push Back" you envision.
Rather, I think a critical mass may well be achieved, (if it hasn't already done so) in which the total GOP brand will be discounted as the absurd, propaganda spewing, unhelpful rants of a far right agenda leading to the GOP becoming less & less relevant in U.S. politics. I can easily envision the rise of another real conservative party that will again appeal to moderates in this country & not just the far right wingnuts.
Just look at the number of DP forum members here who are now unwilling to be self-Identified as GOP members.

Why is that??
 
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