View Poll Results: Results of Raising the Minimum Wage

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Greater buying power

    14 25.00%
  • Greater unemployment

    32 57.14%
  • Less unemployment

    7 12.50%
  • Higher prices

    36 64.29%
  • Less competitive on world markets

    25 44.64%
  • Benefits low income workers

    20 35.71%
  • Places people in higher income tax brackets

    7 12.50%
  • More jobs go overseas

    32 57.14%
  • More businesses close

    30 53.57%
  • Benefits middle income workers

    5 8.93%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 106

Thread: Effects of Minimum Wage

  1. #41
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    But when they find a new job, it'll be at $8 instead of $6, meaning an overall gain for them.
    IF they find a new job.

  2. #42
    Rockin' In The Free World
    the makeout hobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Last Seen
    04-24-14 @ 06:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    7,102

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    IF they find a new job.
    In most economies that aren't completely bottomed out, that's not incredibly difficult.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  3. #43
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    In most economies that aren't completely bottomed out, that's not incredibly difficult.
    Well, when the "skills" you are offering are only worth a certain amount of money and the government dictates that businesses may only pay an amount exceeding the worth of your particular "skill" it becomes more difficult than you might imagine.

  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    11-01-09 @ 01:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    829

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    And you have the option to revolt if you don't like it. What if murderers got away with their crimes because they refused to accept the laws? Laws must be obligatory.
    Natural laws are obligatory. Government laws are bull****.


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    You had the option a few months ago to vote on who is your president, your Congressional Representative, possibly your senator, your governor, your state legislators, your mayor, etc. The person you would have liked to hold that office may not have won, but you had the option, along with your neighbors, to collectively choose.
    Voting is a false dichotomy. It's like a toy steering wheel that a very young child might play with inside the car and keep himself occupied, pretending that he's driving. Adults should know better.


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Why?
    Because if laws are irrational, they are unpredictable and there is no limit to how tyrannical they can get. Today you might agree with the government that controls your life (and probably only because they've been in control of your education and your media), but what about tomorrow?


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Irrelevant to my argument, which is that any agreement between me and Wal-Mart isn't going to be made on equal ground.
    Of course not. You have the public opinion on your side, as would be the case in the free society as well, and currently you have government tyranny on your side as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    And if you aren't currently able to get a job that will allow you to survive in the current economy, what then? Would you gladly starve to death?
    Why should someone else "not be able to survive" just so that you could be paid more than you objectively deserve? People should pull their own economic weight and compete for jobs on the basis of merit (which includes labor value), not government force.

    And no mentally-competent person can starve to death in a capitalist economy. Grains, beans, vegetables, vitamin supplements, etc are very cheap if bought in bulk - you can be very healthy while spending just $1 a day on food. Are you telling me you can't find a job, even if it's wiping some rich guy's butt, for $1 a day?! And then there's charity.

  5. #45
    Sage
    Dav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    04-16-16 @ 02:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,539

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Well, no...it's also true in a small out-of-the-way municipality known as Britain. For example, consult Dickens et al.'s (in which Manning is included), The Effects of Minimum Wages on Employment: Theory and Evidence from Britain. Consider the abstract:



    Unfortunately, this is the kind of empirical research that the utopian rightists aren't interested in looking into; they'd rather engage in horrible misinterpretations of Adam Smith or copy and paste something from mises.org. Libman here is a good example of that.



    So read about monopsony.
    Okay, now that I get the whole monopsony argument, here's what I have to say:

    I have no idea what's up with that Britain study, and wish I did, but I can only get the abstract, which only indicates that unemployment is not increased by minimum wage without giving specific numbers or saying how this is known. It does not, however, change the fact that there is tons of evidence that the U.S. minimum wage decreased employment, a point which you haven't bothered to counter.

    I won't argue that in a monopsony, minimum wage doesn't increase employment (to an extent). Most minimum wage jobs, however, are not part of a monopsony; most of them are jobs in places like McDonalds and Walmart where jobs are so easy to get that there is almost always competition between employers. In some places, in some industries, at some moments in time, minimum wage might increase employment- hence the New Jersey study. In a large country overall, though, this is very unlikely to be the case. Monopsony power just isn't a big enough factor. I even told my economics-major brother that you were arguing that it was, and he said it was one of the stupidest arguments he's heard lately.

  6. #46
    Educator ronpaulvoter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Seen
    07-18-16 @ 04:25 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    627

    fyi Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The correct answers are:

    Greater buying power
    Greater unemployment
    Higher prices
    More businesses close

    Obviously it's going to lead to greater buying power for the people who are working those jobs. In a select few cases (like Ford Motor Co. in the early 1900s), increased wages might increase buying power enough to offset some of the negative effects.

    It will definitely lead to greater unemployment. This is a basic truism of economics: If you artificially increase the price of something (e.g. labor) above the market price, it's going to lead to a surplus.

    It will generally lead to higher prices too. Businesses will pass at least part of that cost off to their consumers. And it will cause more businesses to close, especially in low-skill / low-profit industries like small retail.

    Overall, the minimum wage is a net negative...and it prevents people whose labor is not worth $8 per hour from finding a job at all.
    You got 3 right answers. But greater buying power is wrong. Once wages rise, prices rise to compensate.


    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    We have had a minimum wage for 70 years now. When is it going to lead to it?
    It already has:

    Inflation -- A dollar 70 years ago (1939) was worth about 50 of today's dollars.

    Outsourcing to foreign countries -- In the '50's and '60's, Japan. But then Japan kept raising the cost of its labor, and the outsourcing went to Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, and finally, China and India. Please pick up 100 random items at a store and see "Made in China" on 90 of them.

  7. #47
    Educator ronpaulvoter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Seen
    07-18-16 @ 04:25 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    627

    fyi Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Okay, you can stop holding your breath. Here are the correct answers.

    What will the minimum wage do?

    Greater unemployment: You can't pay a worker less than he is worth. Also, if you have a certain labor budget, and the price per unit increases, a company has to purchase fewer units (workers).

    Higher prices: Any company has to adjust his prices to cover increased costs.

    Less competitive on world markets: As we jack up the cost of our labor, it becomes more expensive relative to foreign labor. Thus foreign products gain an even greater advantage to undersell American products.

    Higher income tax brackets: Only two people got this one correct. YES. When a minimum wage is imposed, all wages and prices soon follow suit. Even though they might otherwise equal out (except for outsourcing, of course), these higher wages fall into higher tax brackets. In other words, everybody gets hit with a TAX INCREASE.

    More jobs overseas: A result of being less competitive.

    More businesses close: Ditto.


    The other four given choices are WRONG.

    ------------------------------------


    Nobody got a perfect score. The Mark scored the highest (90%).

    Better read up on the consequenses of government impositions. The minimum wage is just one of thousands.
    Last edited by ronpaulvoter; 09-23-09 at 06:24 PM.

  8. #48
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    You got 3 right answers. But greater buying power is wrong. Once wages rise, prices rise to compensate.
    Wrong. Wages do NOT rise overall if you raise the minimum wage. If anything, they may actually decline.

    Furthermore, the claim that prices increase to compensate for any wage gains is empirically false. The average income in Memphis, TN is much greater than the average income in San Juan, PR. Yet San Juan has a much higher cost of living.

    Prices will certainly increase if the minimum wage increases, but it has absolutely nothing to do with wage gains. Buying power will still increase for those employed in minimum wage jobs.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-23-09 at 06:28 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #49
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    Higher income tax brackets: Only two people got this one correct. YES. When a minimum wage is imposed, all wages and prices soon follow suit.
    That is absurd. A doctor is going to suddenly be paid more because the guy working at McDonald's earns more?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-23-09 at 06:29 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  10. #50
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: Effects of Minimum Wage

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    Greater unemployment: You can't pay a worker less than he is worth. Also, if you have a certain labor budget, and the price per unit increases, a company has to purchase fewer units (workers).
    Not entirely so. If the performance of the said employees improves with the additional compensation, so will the said businesses bottom line. Of course, this is entirely not certain either

    Higher prices: Any company has to adjust his prices to cover increased costs.
    Not entirely so. Say you are right, that employee performance does not improve, therefore they have to lay off a worker or many; this in turn will not effect the bottom line. Only if they keep the same amount of workers on shift will it put upward pressure on prices.

    Less competitive on world markets: As we jack up the cost of our labor, it becomes more expensive relative to foreign labor. Thus foreign products gain an even greater advantage to undersell American products.
    Not entirely so. Say you are correct, and a higher wage limits force a "widget" company (low tech low skill etc...) to produce outside the US. Known as structural unemployment, this in turn has been demonstrated to "push" the former employees into obtaining a more demanded skill set. Regardless, structural unemployment falls within the realm of natural rate of unemployment. With a low tech industry not retaining anymore resources in the US, a more skill worthy firm will be more inclined to demand the labor of the formerly unskilled worker who obtained this new skill set due to outsourcing.

    Think of outsourcing as a way to "cleanse" the economy of its most inneficient uses of resources. Now, we can trade computer chips for widgets!

    Higher income tax brackets: Only two people got this one correct. YES. When a minimum wage is imposed, all wages and prices soon follow suit. Even though they might otherwise equal out (except for outsourcing, of course), these higher wages fall into higher tax brackets. In other words, everybody gets hit with a TAX INCREASE.
    Actually, the wage rate (specifically for low skill and middle class workers) has been falling short of inflationary pressure during this last decade. Think of this as a calling to those who employed in low skilled sectors of the economy: time to better oneself!

    More jobs overseas: A result of being less competitive.
    Less low skilled jobs here; Yay!

    More businesses close: Ditto.
    And............... New businesses open! Imagine that, new industries and services to lead us into the next decade.

    ------------------------------------

    Nobody got a perfect score. The Mark scored the highest (90%).

    Better read up on the consequenses of government impositions.
    While the government has made some lousy choices, and has crippled many of industry, the American spirit of ingenuity will always be here to garner the next big thing that will spawn more "comparatively advantaged" industries.

    In the beginning of 2000, did we know of Facebook, myspace, youtube, skype, blackberry (Canadian, but US programed aps), iphone apps, etc...?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •