View Poll Results: Are Republicans against ALL forms of healthcare reform?

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  • Yes

    22 44.00%
  • No

    22 44.00%
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    6 12.00%
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Thread: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    GO back and re-read....carefully this time. Nowhere do I say that decreasing the fear of civil suits (btw...not suites) is not tort reform.
    Do not start criticizing my grammar, i have not criticized your many grammatical mistakes in any of these debates we have had. Belittling my spelling wont win any your loosing arguments.

    Drunken Asparagus actually raises a very good point. But your argument didn't address the same issues.
    Maybe to the uneducated person, but someone who knows what they're talking about would realize tort reform does address that issue.

    Tort reform is a good part of any health reform package....but again, it cannot be the base because it simply is not going to make enough of an impact to make a difference without more.
    No-one said it was the base, but an option that would actually lower the costs. The public option is NOT. Killing every american would ELIMINATE the problem, but it is not a good idea.

  2. #32
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Both sides in Washington want change. This is beyond debate
    Everyone wants change, no one wants to address the problems. They want a magic wand that they can wave and make everything better and that's just not going to happen.

    In the same sense as we're never going to fix the economy until they're willing to actually tackle the underlying problems. Neither Republicans nor Democrats will though as attempting it is political suicide.
    Last edited by Cephus; 09-04-09 at 02:41 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    It hasn't been publicized very widely but the Republicans submitted H.R. 3400 on July 30 and it's still in committee.
    I haven't read it yet but a Republican bill does exist.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It hasn't been publicized very widely but the Republicans submitted H.R. 3400 on July 30 and it's still in committee.
    I haven't read it yet but a Republican bill does exist.
    And the universe provides:

    Text of H.R.3400 as Introduced in House: Small Business Health Fairness Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

    I don't see anything in there that reforms the problem: insurance.

    Like I predicted, Obama care and whatever sad pathetic excuse for a bill the GOP has will fail because neither party has the balls to take on insurance.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And the universe provides:

    Text of H.R.3400 as Introduced in House: Small Business Health Fairness Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

    I don't see anything in there that reforms the problem: insurance.

    Like I predicted, Obama care and whatever sad pathetic excuse for a bill the GOP has will fail because neither party has the balls to take on insurance.
    What would be required to square crap out is Federal intervention in state territory, specifically with scope of practice laws and state mandates.

    No one wants to touch the lightning rod issues so I don't expect much but more pushing for a government option and more pushing for credits or some other such nonsense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    No, I don't think Republicans want to kill it, but when you consider all of the riots in the streets of people screaming for health care reform worse than during the Vietnam war, I think we as a country need to make this our top priority and propose the government to intervene as the government knows best, otherwise it will be pure anarchy in the streets as health care is the number one issue that is facing our country, and maybe even the world and we need reform now. WHAT DO WE WANT? REFORM! I CAN'T HEAR YOU? REFORM!

    And the Marxist pantsh&&ting continues, blah blah....

  7. #37
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I don't see anything in there that reforms the problem: insurance.

    Like I predicted, Obama care and whatever sad pathetic excuse for a bill the GOP has will fail because neither party has the balls to take on insurance.
    But it's not just the insurance industry, another massive problem is the ambulance-chasing lawyers and nobody has the balls to take on the legal industry either. That's why doctors have to carry so much malpractice insurance, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums a year to protect them from the scum-sucking lawyers who will sue knowing that most doctors don't have time to spend in court defending themselves and will just let their insurance pay out without a fight.

    Maybe the biggest problem, the one that no one is even talking about, is the fact that current government healthcare isn't even paying it's bills. Getting state and federal programs like Medicare to actually pay out is horrible, they either don't pay at all or pay a small portion of actual costs, leaving hospitals and doctors out in the cold. The government requires that most providers take Medicare, then don't pay for it like they promised they would. I don't see any reason to think that even if we give the government all this money, they'll pay their bills either, they have proven they won't already. We shouldn't trust them with even more money when they screw up so horribly with the money they already get.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But it's not just the insurance industry, another massive problem is the ambulance-chasing lawyers and nobody has the balls to take on the legal industry either. That's why doctors have to carry so much malpractice insurance, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums a year to protect them from the scum-sucking lawyers who will sue knowing that most doctors don't have time to spend in court defending themselves and will just let their insurance pay out without a fight.

    Maybe the biggest problem, the one that no one is even talking about, is the fact that current government healthcare isn't even paying it's bills. Getting state and federal programs like Medicare to actually pay out is horrible, they either don't pay at all or pay a small portion of actual costs, leaving hospitals and doctors out in the cold. The government requires that most providers take Medicare, then don't pay for it like they promised they would. I don't see any reason to think that even if we give the government all this money, they'll pay their bills either, they have proven they won't already. We shouldn't trust them with even more money when they screw up so horribly with the money they already get.
    I agree with all that, the real problem though is that no one is taking on the whole problem of "Fee for Service". If don't do that, we will never get costs under control. Basically, right now we have a system where insurance companies don't have to compete with each other in many markets, doctors many times focus on giving you more services (many unnecessary) rather than better and more targeted care, individuals have no economic incentives to improve their own health (for example, why do smokers pay the same medicare premiums that non-smokers pay), trial lawyers result in defense medicine, and the costs for the uninsured just get passed on the rest of us.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #39
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I agree with all that, the real problem though is that no one is taking on the whole problem of "Fee for Service". If don't do that, we will never get costs under control. Basically, right now we have a system where insurance companies don't have to compete with each other in many markets, doctors many times focus on giving you more services (many unnecessary) rather than better and more targeted care, individuals have no economic incentives to improve their own health (for example, why do smokers pay the same medicare premiums that non-smokers pay), trial lawyers result in defense medicine, and the costs for the uninsured just get passed on the rest of us.
    The reason for the high costs, outside of the ridiculous malpractice insurance, is that insurance and Medicare don't pay their bills. Say a medical procedure costs the hospital $200. They perform the procedure and bill the insurance company or Medicare for $200. Medicare or the insurance say screw you and pay $20, if they pay at all. It doesn't take the hospital too long to realize that if they want their $200, they have to charge $2000 for the procedure. They get paid the $200 it actually costs and everyone is happy, except the guy who comes in the door with no insurance and still has to, by law, pay the $2000 fee.

    The only reason it's $2000 is because Medicare and the insurance companies aren't paying what they're supposed to be paying and it increases the costs for everyone.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Do Republicans want to kill ALL healthcare reform?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The reason for the high costs, outside of the ridiculous malpractice insurance, is that insurance and Medicare don't pay their bills. Say a medical procedure costs the hospital $200. They perform the procedure and bill the insurance company or Medicare for $200. Medicare or the insurance say screw you and pay $20, if they pay at all. It doesn't take the hospital too long to realize that if they want their $200, they have to charge $2000 for the procedure. They get paid the $200 it actually costs and everyone is happy, except the guy who comes in the door with no insurance and still has to, by law, pay the $2000 fee.

    The only reason it's $2000 is because Medicare and the insurance companies aren't paying what they're supposed to be paying and it increases the costs for everyone.
    That is certainly a contributing factor, but its not the only one. You still have the whole problem of "Fee for Service". You still have tons of unnecessary procedures and tests being performed just so providers can rack up the bill more. You still have consumers completely disconnected from the actual costs of the health care services they are consuming.

    What you are describing helps to explain the high out of pocket costs for the uninsured, it doesn't explain why health care in this country consumes 16% of GDP.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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