View Poll Results: Do you agree with the premise stated in the OP?

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Thread: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

  1. #51
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No concession. It just provided the insight I needed to support the conclusion that I had already surmized.
    You’ve already demonstrated your ignorance of judicial review, so any conclusions you’ve reached based upon your understanding of the process are similarly ignorant.

  2. #52
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    The wording of the 2nd amendment is not difficult to interpret, but those who wish to allow the federal government to infringe upon this particular right have a vested interest in obfuscating the issue behind arguments concerning interpretation, practical application, etc. I am against the arbitrary reinterpretation (or manipulation) of any legal contract, most especially the constitution.

    If the right is to be infringed, it may only legally and properly be infringed through either an amendment to the constitution or for a new constitution to be drafted altogether (via convention), both of which I would oppose as unnecessary.

    In the meantime, the 2nd amendment holds equal weight to all other amendments, there is no reason to believe it deserves any special consideration or additional scrutiny in comparison to any other part of the constitution.
    Last edited by other; 09-02-09 at 09:39 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Constitutional analysis is not that "simplisitic". Its actually a very complicated process....

    This reiterates my original point, that it is difficult to discuss this topic unless you have a grasp of process. Not dissing you Goobie, most people don't get it. Its also why Conlaw in law school is a year long course unlike many which are only 1 semester.
    I had 3 semesters of Con law. Does that count as more or less than a year?

    Rather than trying to get away with just telling me I dont know what I'm talking about, tell me, exactly, how I am wrong.

  4. #54
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I had 3 semesters of Con law. Does that count as more or less than a year?

    Rather than trying to get away with just telling me I dont know what I'm talking about, tell me, exactly, how I am wrong.
    He can't, because he has an agenda.


    And much like a typical liberal.. he'll sneer at those who disagree with him as "stupid"..

    Much like they're doing in the healthcare thread right now.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

  5. #55
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on guns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The question then becomes what constitutes a "clear and present danger."
    That can certainly be discussed, but there is plenty of existing matrial to draw upon.

    Surely owning a nuclear weapon would be a clear and present danger.
    Nuclear weapons ar enot 'arms' as the term is used in the amendment and therefore any discussion of them is meaningless.

    As far as "guns," it's hard to tell. If the guns in question have some sort of useful purpose aside from causing chaos and crime, then I would argue that they clearly do not constitute clear and present danger. If they don't have any useful purpose...it becomes much more difficult to determine.
    Are you discussing the use of these weapons, or their simple posession?

    I should add that although "clear and present danger" is an example of a limitation on freedom of speech, it isn't the only limitation. There are civil limitations as well as criminal limitations; you can't slander someone, infringe on their copyrights, etc.
    I believe this was included in the OP.

    Furthermore, I don't think you can neatly substitute the limitations on one right for the limitations on another right.
    What about the 2nd amendment negates the validity of the tests regarding restrictions on the exercise of the rights found under the 1st amedment that do not violate the 1st amendment?

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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Parallels to the first amendment are tenuous, because they prosecute you for the speech, they do not cut out your tongue, or ban you from acquiring a new tongue.
    Last edited by Voidwar; 09-03-09 at 01:02 PM.

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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Parallels to the first amendment are tenuous, because they prosecute you for the speech, they do not cut out your tongue, or ban you from acquiring a new tongue.
    I think I understand this, but I'm not sure.
    Can you clarify?

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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Restrictions on free speech, do not restrict the apparatus, they restrict behavior.

    It is illegal to yell fire in a theater, but it is not illegal to bring your tongue into a theater.

    Actions, not possesion. The two rights are infringed on in very different ways, thus parallel arguments become tenuous.

  9. #59
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Restrictions on free speech, do not restrict the apparatus, they restrict behavior.

    It is illegal to yell fire in a theater, but it is not illegal to bring your tongue into a theater.

    Actions, not possesion. The two rights are infringed on in very different ways, thus parallel arguments become tenuous.
    That's what I thought you meant.

    Yes. This is very much my point, though there has been no opportunity to discuss it, as there has been very little actual discussion of the issue.

    The -potential- to harm others and the -potential- to create an immediate condition of clear and present danger to others is not the same as -actually- causing these things. The restrictions on the rights protected by the first amendment are based on the -actions- of people, not their -potential- to commit those actions.

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    Arrow Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    So when people try to justify gun laws with speech laws, their whole attempt at parallel is rendered impotent by the fact that no one cuts out the tongue of a slanderer.

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