View Poll Results: Do you agree with the premise stated in the OP?

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Thread: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

  1. #11
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What you fail to recognize and address in your argument is that the state interest in regulating "expression of an opinion" or "publishing an internet blog" is not the same as the state interest in regulating weapons.
    The interest of the state in all cases is to protect the rights of the people, by restricting or prohibiting actions that violate those rights.

    Said interest is therefore the same in both cases, and as such, there are neither apples or oranges, but only cherries.

  2. #12
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The interest of the state in all cases is to protect the rights of the people, by restricting or prohibiting actions that violate those rights.

    Said interest is therefore the same in both cases, and as such, there are neither apples or oranges, but only cherries.
    Constitutional analysis is not that "simplisitic". Its actually a very complicated process....

    This reiterates my original point, that it is difficult to discuss this topic unless you have a grasp of process. Not dissing you Goobie, most people don't get it. Its also why Conlaw in law school is a year long course unlike many which are only 1 semester.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #13
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Constitutional analysis is not that "simplisitic".
    No, it's pretty simple. You read the words and apply them. If there is any ambiguity in the wording simply look to the Founders and how they viewed rights and government power.

    Its actually a very complicated process....
    Anything can be complicated after decades of distortion. Historically, the courts have existed to affirm government authority over individual rights. Many of the precedents you cite arose as a consequence of these tortured legal analyses.

    This reiterates my original point, that it is difficult to discuss this topic unless you have a grasp of process. Not dissing you Goobie, most people don't get it. Its also why Conlaw in law school is a year long course unlike many which are only 1 semester.
    I don't need a Conlaw class to know what words mean. I read the Constitution, I understand what rights are and what they aren't, and I understand the system of governance as the Founders envisioned it. That's how you read the Constitution. Not hard.

  4. #14
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This reiterates my original point, that it is difficult to discuss this topic unless you have a grasp of process. Not dissing you Goobie, most people don't get it. Its also why Conlaw in law school is a year long course unlike many which are only 1 semester.
    Nice, the Rumsfeld excuse.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #15
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, it's pretty simple. You read the words and apply them. If there is any ambiguity in the wording simply look to the Founders and how they viewed rights and government power.



    Anything can be complicated after decades of distortion. Historically, the courts have existed to affirm government authority over individual rights. Many of the precedents you cite arose as a consequence of these tortured legal analyses.



    I don't need a Conlaw class to know what words mean. I read the Constitution, I understand what rights are and what they aren't, and I understand the system of governance as the Founders envisioned it. That's how you read the Constitution. Not hard.
    If its so easy ethereal....explain the way the SCOTUS undergoes Constitutional Analysis. Discuss what they mean by "Strict Scrutiny" and describe the other levels of Constitutional analysis which the Court undertakes.

    If you can do it....I will eat my words.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #16
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice, the Rumsfeld excuse.
    Same Challenge to you Ikari.


    The fact of the matter is...just like home plumbing....everyone wants to think that they are qualified to engage in it. Sometimes its simple, but most of the time you need to call someone who knows what they are doing.
    Doesn't stop most of us from pulling out the wrench from time to time and thinking that we are "Joe the plumber".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  7. #17
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Same Challenge to you Ikari.


    The fact of the matter is...just like home plumbing....everyone wants to think that they are qualified to engage in it. Sometimes its simple, but most of the time you need to call someone who knows what they are doing.
    Doesn't stop most of us from pulling out the wrench from time to time and thinking that we are "Joe the plumber".
    What challenge? You're just calling us all dumb because our opinions aren't the same as yours. Thanks Rumsfeld.

    Oh, and many home plumbing things I can do myself. I can do a lot of automotive things on older cars as well. I can take my motorcycles apart in my sleep...or drunk. Not that the last one there ever happened *coughs*.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-02-09 at 06:58 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #18
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What challenge? You're just calling us all dumb because our opinions aren't the same as yours. Thanks Rumsfeld.

    Oh, and many home plumbing things I can do myself. I can do a lot of automotive things on older cars as well. I can take my motorcycles apart in my sleep...or drunk. Not that the last one there ever happened *coughs*.
    I'm not calling anyone dumb. I'm saying that a lot of people think that they understand how the SCOTUS process works but they actually don't.
    That's why I'm hesitant to even engage myself in these discussions. Don't get me wrong...I'm not a Constitutional scholar but I have studied Conlaw and understand the process. This gives me enough insight to know that there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks out there who like to talk like they know what they are talking about when they really don't. That's not calling people "stupid" its calling them on their arrogance and ignorance.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #19
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If its so easy ethereal....explain the way the SCOTUS undergoes Constitutional Analysis.
    Because the precedents as affirmed by previous courts were typically the consequence of big government favoritism on the part of the judiciary. The tortured legal doctrines and constructs which arose as a consequence of these perverted precedents were merely tools in the dismantling of individual rights and the validation of illegitimate government authority and collectivist ideology.

    The Founders wrote the Constitution so that the average citizen could read and comprehend it without any formal legal training or education. Now I have a liberal telling me that only the smartest most awesomest folk can analyze it properly. What's changed?

    Discuss what they mean by "Strict Scrutiny" and describe the other levels of Constitutional analysis which the Court undertakes.

    If you can do it....I will eat my words.
    What's to discuss? I do not consider the "strict scrutiny" litmus test to be valid. I prefer Jefferson's litmus test:

    "Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."

    Jefferson on Politics & Government: Inalienable Rights

  10. #20
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    Re: Constitutional restrictions on gunsd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Because the precedents as affirmed by previous courts were typically the consequence of big government favoritism on the part of the judiciary. The tortured legal doctrines and constructs which arose as a consequence of these perverted precedents were merely tools in the dismantling of individual rights and the validation of illegitimate government authority and collectivist ideology.

    The Founders wrote the Constitution so that the average citizen could read and comprehend it without any formal legal training or education. Now I have a liberal telling me that only the smartest most awesomest folk can analyze it properly. What's changed?



    What's to discuss? I do not consider the "strict scrutiny" litmus test to be valid. I prefer Jefferson's litmus test:
    As I thought....an exercise in futility.

    You should know Eth.....in our history of jurisprudence, the levels of scrutiny under which all Constitutional issues are analyzed has existed since the inception of the Court.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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