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Is the Republic of China (Taiwan) worth protecting?

Our GDP is nearly 14 Trillion, China's GPD is 3 Trillion. There is no way they will eclipse us by 2015.

China is dependent on western companies investing huge amounts of money in China and its government's entire focus is on entering into partnerships with those companies. China is a competitor, not an enemy. China can't even take on Japan's navy, much less ours. The Chinese government does not fear the United States, it fears its own people.

I have spent time in China in 2007 and just this summer. The Chinese people all and all really like us. I don't think we have anything to worry about with them. Globalism ultimately brings about more peace and security than the strongest military could.

Here is what you are overlooking. Our GDP is elusive as we are in great deficit and debt, therefor there exists no free money. China, on the other hand is closing the gap on actual free capital GDP. Therefor by 2015 they will eclipse us.
 
Here is what you are overlooking. Our GDP is elusive as we are in great deficit and debt, therefor there exists no free money. China, on the other hand is closing the gap on actual free capital GDP. Therefor by 2015 they will eclipse us.

The reason why China's government is swimming in money is that it taxes its citizens heavily, spends a fraction what we spend on defense, and spends very little in terms of social spending (Public Schools, Social Insurance, Safetynets and so on). Basically they dump all their money into infrastructure and subsidizing development.

That is ultimately untenable for China. The populace there is already demanding more services in exchange for their heavy taxation (depending on income level). Imagine living in a country where your total effective taxation is higher than it is here, yet in many cases you don't even get public schools for your kids. You get no social security, no medicare, no unemployment. The reason why personal savings rates are so high there is because you are on your own. Which is fine, except for the fact that your taxes are also high. As more of their citizens move into the middle class they will demand the same services out of their government that every other developed nation has, and China will ulitmately find itself in the same fiscal situation that virtually every other developed nation ends up in.

The fact is, China's long term problems make ours look easy.
 
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I don't see any national interest worth fighting a war against China to defend Tiawan. During the Cold War it might have made some sense under the policy of containment, but we need to move away from the Cold War mentality.

Taiwan is a region China has a reasonable historical claim on and is clearly in their natural sphere of influence. And as others have pointed out, with Taiwan and China already deepening economic ties with each other, its a moot point. Tiawan will come under Chinese influence naturally, so there is no need for a military conflict.

Taiwan is a perfect example of an area where we need scale back our involvement. We should be encouraging China and Taiwan to re-unite under terms similar to what Hong Kong got, thereby removing one of the world's possible "flash points".

We don't need to play the world's policeman. It makes little different to the American economy or national security if Taiwan is independent or somehow reunited with China, so why commit ourselves to a potential war where we have no vested interest?
 
Why didnt Truman listen to MacArthur, we should have glassed Shanghai when we had the chance.

No offense, but, sometimes you take the most ridiculous opinion available.

Scenario: The ROC makes an attempt at formally declaring independence, the PRC gets pissed and sends missiles into Taiwan as warning shots. Taiwan goes ahead and formally declares independence anyway, the PRC invades.

Taiwan or "Chinese Taipai" has a history of being abused by China. I'm quite uniformed, however. Has there been any recent news that signified a fight for independence?
 
No offense, but, sometimes you take the most ridiculous opinion available.



Taiwan or "Chinese Taipai" has a history of being abused by China. I'm quite uniformed, however. Has there been any recent news that signified a fight for independence?


No, there has been no significant call for independence in Taiwan recently. But the situation is pretty volatile in Taiwan, slight differences in wording can sway public opinion and diplomatic ties with the PRC.
 
I don't see any national interest worth fighting a war against China to defend Tiawan. During the Cold War it might have made some sense under the policy of containment, but we need to move away from the Cold War mentality.

Taiwan is a region China has a reasonable historical claim on and is clearly in their natural sphere of influence. And as others have pointed out, with Taiwan and China already deepening economic ties with each other, its a moot point. Tiawan will come under Chinese influence naturally, so there is no need for a military conflict.

Taiwan is a perfect example of an area where we need scale back our involvement. We should be encouraging China and Taiwan to re-unite under terms similar to what Hong Kong got, thereby removing one of the world's possible "flash points".

We don't need to play the world's policeman. It makes little different to the American economy or national security if Taiwan is independent or somehow reunited with China, so why commit ourselves to a potential war where we have no vested interest?

Firstly, since you are saying that there is no need for a military conflict because of improving relations already, then there is no reason for us to drop our promise to protect Taiwan. If Taiwan agrees to be part of China with some arrangement, then I have no problem with that.

Secondly, untill the people of Taiwan want to become part of China, then that means that military actions by China to annex Taiwan will be aggressive action. China can not force groups of people who don't want to be part of China to lose their separation from China.
If China is willing to take land where the inhabitants want to have their own nation, then we might as well confront China sooner then later.


We may have a differing opinion in this, but I think people have a right to legitimately rebel from a country that they are a part of, and any violation of that is in fact aggressive by the larger state.
 
We may have a differing opinion in this, but I think people have a right to legitimately rebel from a country that they are a part of, and any violation of that is in fact aggressive by the larger state.
And that is our business because ... ?
 
Firstly, since you are saying that there is no need for a military conflict because of improving relations already, then there is no reason for us to drop our promise to protect Taiwan. If Taiwan agrees to be part of China with some arrangement, then I have no problem with that.
I'm saying we have absolutely no national interest in whether or not Tiawan remains independnent and for that reason we remove ourselves from the situation. Its likely the two will peacefully unit, but you never know. Something could spark a confrontation and there is absolutely no reason for us to be involved. I have yet to hear anyone explain how we would be negatively impacted by Taiwan's annexation.

Secondly, untill the people of Taiwan want to become part of China, then that means that military actions by China to annex Taiwan will be aggressive action. China can not force groups of people who don't want to be part of China to lose their separation from China.
If China is willing to take land where the inhabitants want to have their own nation, then we might as well confront China sooner then later.

We may have a differing opinion in this, but I think people have a right to legitimately rebel from a country that they are a part of, and any violation of that is in fact aggressive by the larger state.

Sure people have the right to rebel, but in the real world that right has to be backed through force of arms or the threat of force of arms. I see no reason why American force should be backing Taiwanese (or anyone other than Americans) claims of independence.

We can't be the world's policeman, righting every percieved wrong. It's too expensive in terms of cash and manpower and 90% of the time it creates a backlash against us.
 
I'm saying we have absolutely no national interest in whether or not Tiawan remains independnent and for that reason we remove ourselves from the situation. Its likely the two will peacefully unit, but you never know. Something could spark a confrontation and there is absolutely no reason for us to be involved. I have yet to hear anyone explain how we would be negatively impacted by Taiwan's annexation.
We do have a national interest for Taiwan to be free, because of the goods we import from them that would be disturbed if there was military conflict, and later government influence from China after an invasion.

But if anything, the main interest we have is for China to not be invading other groups of people that do not wish to be part of China, instead of relating to just Taiwan.
Sure people have the right to rebel, but in the real world that right has to be backed through force of arms or the threat of force of arms. I see no reason why American force should be backing Taiwanese (or anyone other than Americans) claims of independence.

We can't be the world's policeman, righting every percieved wrong. It's too expensive in terms of cash and manpower and 90% of the time it creates a backlash against us.

I understand that groups of people commonly aren't able to justifiably rebel. However, I am commenting on how if China is allowed to get new regions (which I admit is harder to classify with Taiwan) then neighboring countries in Asia will be in danger. Right now China is just a competitor with America, but if that changes then we should confront China sooner then later because of their economic growth.



Anyway, if I thought it was very likely that we would be pulled into war because of us protecting Taiwa, the I would be less likely to support it.
 
And that is our business because ... ?

It isn't nescesarily our business, but if we can free a group of people with little or no effort by ourselves, then we should take action.

If we should make it our business is on a case by case basis.
 
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