• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

school band T-shirt is pulled

Should this band T-shirt have been pulled?


  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

Layla_Z

DP Veteran
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
1,440
Reaction score
1,012
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
What do you think of this issue. Are the parents who wanted the shirt pulled right or are them making a big deal out of nothing?

T-shirts worn by the Smith-Cotton High School band have evolved into controversy among parents.

The shirts, which were designed to promote the band’s fall program, are light gray and feature an image of a monkey progressing through stages and eventually emerging as a man. Each figure holds a brass instrument. Several instruments decorate the background and the words “Smith-Cotton High School Tiger Pride Marching Band” and “Brass Evolutions 2009” are emblazoned above and below the image.

Assistant Band Director Brian Kloppenburg said the shirts were designed by him, Band Director Jordan Summers and Main Street Logo. Kloppenburg said the shirts were intended to portray how brass instruments have evolved in music from the 1960s to modern day. Summers said they chose the evolution of man because it was “recognizable.” The playlist of songs the band is slated to perform revolve around the theme “Brass Evolutions.”

The band debuted the T-shirts when it marched in the Missouri State Fair parade. Summers said he was surprised when he received a direct complaint after the parade.

While the shirts don’t directly violate the district’s dress code, Assistant Superintendent Brad Pollitt said complaints by parents made him take action.

“I made the decision to have the band members turn the shirts in after several concerned parents brought the shirts to my attention,” Pollitt said.

Pollitt said the district is required by law to remain neutral where religion is concerned.

“If the shirts had said ‘Brass Resurrections’ and had a picture of Jesus on the cross, we would have done the same thing,” he said.

Band parent Sherry Melby, who is a teacher in the district, stands behind Pollitt’s decision. Melby said she associated the image on the T-shirt with Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt.” Melby said. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”

Parent Alena Hoeffling said she is infuriated with administration’s decision to pull the attire.

“Whatever happened to the separation of church and state,” she said.

Hoeffling said she is both a scientific person and a practicing Catholic and enjoyed the “play on words.”

“I thought it was funny,” she said. “I didn’t think much of it.”

However, the T-shirt’s imagery became a hot topic at a recent TIMPO (band booster) meeting. Hoeffling said that’s where she learned the evolution T-shirts were causing a stir.

“Parents were informed the shirts had to be turned in,” Hoeffling said. “I couldn’t believe it.”

Hoeffling said she enrolled her children in public school so they could have choices.
“If I wanted my children to be sheltered, I would have enrolled them in private school,” she said.

On Friday afternoon after practice, band members piled the shirts on a table. While most were apathetic about the shirts, others felt the drama surrounding the shirts was unwarranted.

Summers said a new T-shirt is currently in the design stages, but declined to comment on the image.
“It has to be approved first,” he said.

Pollitt said the district would now have to absorb the cost of the T-shirts — $700 — that would have been paid for by the band parents. Pollitt said an anonymous donor had originally planned to pay half the cost, but declined after the evolution image was placed on the shirts. However, the donor does plan to fund half the price of the new T-shirts.

Sedalia School District 200 Board of Education member Michael Stees said it was unfortunate the T-shirt design was misconceived and he hopes the band can just move forward.

“This is an exciting time for the band,” Stees said. “They don’t need any negativity.”

Pollitt said the band’s new shirts would be approved by the activities director and administration before being printed.

“We support whatever steps the school district has to take,” Summers said.
 
Band shirts hit wrong note with parents | 0px, span, font - Top Story - Sedalia Democrat

You forgot a link.

And it's big deal out of nothing. What always amazes me is how people make a big deal out of things like this and then use a product derived from the sciences of evolution without even realizing the contradiction.

The ignorance about evolution is pretty prevalent in scientific illiterate America. Evolution in itself, has nothing to do with religion, nor is it a religion. Calling this a 1st amendment issue is total garbage. Maybe he should do something with chemistry's change over time and see if that rattles people.

But that's America for you, especially the Heartland.
 
Last edited:
Pollitt said the district is required by law to remain neutral where religion is concerned.

“If the shirts had said ‘Brass Resurrections’ and had a picture of Jesus on the cross, we would have done the same thing,” he said.

This guy sounds like a ****ing idiot. There is nothing remotely religious about a shirt parodying an evolution drawing.
 
Whether or not you agree with their beliefs, the shirt was offensive to some people. I disagree that it's a first ammendment issue (science is not religion, and is not opposed to religion - it's just science), but why put an image on a school shirt that parents find offensive?
 
“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt.” Melby said. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”

LOL! Classic! The next line should have read, "Melby, who is a teacher, was unable to continue commenting on the shirt because she began choking on irony."
 
LOL! Classic! The next line should have read, "Melby, who is a teacher, was unable to continue commenting on the shirt because she began choking on irony."

Stupid yes, but not ironic.
 
Pollitt said the district is required by law to remain neutral where religion is concerned.

“If the shirts had said ‘Brass Resurrections’ and had a picture of Jesus on the cross, we would have done the same thing,” he said.

SO we have an assistant superintendent that thinks that evolution is the same thing as religion. I find that frightening.
 
Band parent Sherry Melby, who is a teacher in the district, stands behind Pollitt’s decision. Melby said she associated the image on the T-shirt with Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

“I was disappointed with the image on the shirt.” Melby said. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.”

o_O
Nevermind the shirt. Should she be a teacher if that is what she thinks?
 
Stupid yes, but not ironic.

Sure it is. Schools are the places that our youth are taught about the Theory of Evolution. A teacher not wanting Evolution associated with a school conveys a position which is the exact opposite of what is literally taught in a school. That's textbook irony right there, my friend.
 
Last edited:
This guy sounds like a ****ing idiot. There is nothing remotely religious about a shirt parodying an evolution drawing.

SO we have an assistant superintendent that thinks that evolution is the same thing as religion. I find that frightening.

was it such a leap in reasoning for you two?

only ones who would oppose the shirt are religious, so he tied into it to justify with that comment
 
Whether or not you agree with their beliefs, the shirt was offensive to some people. I disagree that it's a first ammendment issue (science is not religion, and is not opposed to religion - it's just science), but why put an image on a school shirt that parents find offensive?

They probably didn't think it would be offensive. If I saw it on a T-shirt, I might think it was clever or I might think nothing at all...but "OMG people will be offended" would not immediately leap to mind. As cynical as I am, I guess I sometimes have too much faith in the intelligence of people.
 
was it such a leap in reasoning for you two?

only ones who would oppose the shirt are religious, so he tied into it to justify with that comment

I don't follow this. Because some religious people object to secular things, does it make secular things religious?
 
was it such a leap in reasoning for you two?

only ones who would oppose the shirt are religious, so he tied into it to justify with that comment

Just because religious people are the only ones who are offended by it doesn't mean that it's a religious issue.
 
Sure it is. Schools are the places that our youth are taught about the Theory of Evolution. A teacher not wanting Evolution associated with a school conveys the exact opposite of what is literally taught in a school. That's textbook irony right there, my friend.

Irony would be if she were a science teacher. As is she's just dumb.
 
Just because religious people are the only ones who are offended by it doesn't mean that it's a religious issue.

I don't follow this. Because some religious people object to secular things, does it make secular things religious?

it is quite simple, you must apparently not want to see why it was said
 
They probably didn't think it would be offensive. If I saw it on a T-shirt, I might think it was clever or I might think nothing at all...but "OMG people will be offended" would not immediately leap to mind. As cynical as I am, I guess I sometimes have too much faith in the intelligence of people.

I wasn't aware that anybody was saying they did it knowing they would offend people. It did, however, and I fully support a school district pulling a shirt of theirs that parents find offensive.
 
Irony would be if she were a science teacher. As is she's just dumb.

Dumb? Yes. But a teacher not wanting something associated with schools that is entirely associated with schools to begin with just reeks of irony. Her discipline is irrelevant; as a teacher, she knows better. Rather, she should know better (she's a teacher, after all). Hence, the nice thick slice of irony that she choked on in my hypothetical example.
 
Last edited:
was it such a leap in reasoning for you two?

only ones who would oppose the shirt are religious, so he tied into it to justify with that comment

Yes, but it doesn't make sense and it further fuels the belief that evolution is a religious belief. I understand why he did it. It just is rather stupid when you understand the subject. It's like saying that people objected to chemistry on the basis of religion, therefore it's a 1st amendment issue. Pandering to stupidity and ignorance, while may get you elected, doesn't make you correct.
 
I won't address whether it was right fo them to be offended. But they were, so the course of wisdom was to recall them.

Of course, I don't really approve of school bands or school sports to begin with.
 
it is quite simple, you must apparently not want to see why it was said

Or it might mean you are not explaining your point well.
 
Well, I think the only right, sinsible thing to do is simply to have the band remove their clothing before marching past the thumpers.

There would be nothing to object to, then.
 
Well, I think the only right, sinsible thing to do is simply to have the band remove their clothing before marching past the thumpers.

There would be nothing to object to, then.

That's kinda dangerous, don't you think? Thumpers attract worms, and having the band remove their suits leaves them at the mercy of the desert of Arrakis. They'd be dead in a matter of hours if the worms didn't get them first.

Oh wait...I think I read your post wrong!
 
Whether or not you agree with their beliefs, the shirt was offensive to some people. I disagree that it's a first ammendment issue (science is not religion, and is not opposed to religion - it's just science), but why put an image on a school shirt that parents find offensive?

So what if it's offensive to some people. I'm sure that some people consider Mardi Gras to be offensive. Is that ever stopped though? I'm also pretty sure that two men having sex is offensive to some people also. Should we stop that also?

Point being is that just because some may find it offensive doesn't mean that it should be stopped. Read my second sig line. ;)
 
So what if it's offensive to some people. I'm sure that some people consider Mardi Gras to be offensive. Is that ever stopped though? I'm also pretty sure that two men having sex is offensive to some people also. Should we stop that also?

Point being is that just because some may find it offensive doesn't mean that it should be stopped. Read my second sig line. ;)

I agree with everything you posted. It's different when a school is selling an item that the parents deem offensive, though. If somebody wants to sell a shirt that says "LOL, 9/11!" with a picture of Obama pulling a swastika out of a raccoon's ass, I don't think anything should stand in their way. I just don't think it's appropriate for a school to be producing.

If the parents find something a school produces offensive the school doesn't have to pull it, but if they do I don't have a problem with that decision.
 
Back
Top Bottom