View Poll Results: Should healthcare insurance be mandatory for everyone?

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  • Yes. Explain please.

    14 28.00%
  • No. Explain please.

    36 72.00%
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Thread: Healthcare mandatory?

  1. #81
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Its an observation, not a position.
    Back away from it any way you want, the fact remains:

    Your (observation) is untenable.

    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actually address the argument that negates it, is proof.

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.

  2. #82
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Back away from it any way you want, the fact remains:
    Your (observation) is untenable.
    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actuall address the argument that negates it, is proof.
    I am not backing away from it at all. People will be treated for life threatening conditions at hospitals regardless of their ability to pay. The costs of treating them will then be passed on to others regardless of whether its to other taxpayers, or just through providers overcharging others. After all, why do you think you pay $50.00 for a box of tissues in a hospital?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #83
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I am not backing away from it all.
    People will be treated for life threatening conditions at hospitals regardless of their ability to pay. The costs of treating them will then be passed on to others regardless of whether its to other taxpayers, or just through providers overcharging others.
    All of this has been effectively addressed, with no counterargument from you.

    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actually address the argument that negates it, is proof.

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.

  4. #84
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    All of this has been effectively addressed, with no counterargument from you.

    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actually address the argument that negates it, is proof.

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.
    Your argument is basically:

    1. People can just give to charity to take care of this problem.

    Well, people do give to charity, but obviously since people show up all the time to emergency rooms in need of life saving care without the ability to pay, then its obviously insufficient.

    2. If a hospital wants to give life saving care to someone that can't pay for it, then its up to them to bear the costs.

    The problem there is that you ignore basic economics. They simply pass the costs on to everyone else by charging higher prices for services than they otherwise would.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #85
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Your argument is basically:
    1. People can just give to charity to take care of this problem.
    Incorrect.
    My argument is that, if your, individual and collective, conscience so dicstates, you can make this choice for yourself. That there is some degree of collective conscience to this end, in and of itself, means nothing.

    Well, people do give to charity, but obviously since people show up all the time to emergency rooms in need of life saving care without the ability to pay, then its obviously insufficient.
    This does nothing to negate what I said. If you, collectively and individualy, feel that enough isn't being done, then you are free to give more.

    2. If a hospital wants to give life saving care to someone that can't pay for it, then its up to them to bear the costs.
    This is part of it - but as such, you need to include, and address, the rest.

  6. #86
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Incorrect.
    My argument is that, if your, individual and collective, conscience so dicstates, you can make this choice for yourself. That there is some degree of collective conscience to this end, in and of itself, means nothing.


    This does nothing to negate what I said. If you, collectively and individualy, feel that enough isn't being done, then you are free to give more.


    This is part of it - but as such, you need to include, and address, the rest.
    Yes, in your fantasy world of fairies and unicorns and what ever else is in it, everyone just gives so much to charity that no one shows up at hospitals uninsured without the ability to pay.

    Once again, the reality is, people give to charity, yet still people show up at hospitals rack up huge medical bills, and because they are uninsured, the costs get spread to the rest of us. That is what happens.

    Now, if you personally would rather spend 50 dollars for a box of tissues while in the hospital to pay for the uninsured, then fine, but personally I would just rather require people to have the nominal amount of personal responsibility to carry at minimum a basic catastrophic policy so that individuals are personally responsible for their medical costs rather than rest of us having to pay for them.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes, in your fantasy world of fairies and unicorns...
    I accept your concession of the point.

    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actually address the argument that negates it, is proof of said concession

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.

  8. #88
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I accept your concession of the point.

    The fact that you cannot do anythig other than repeat your (observation), rather than actually address the argument that negates it, is proof of said concession

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.
    The problem is that I am stating reality, and you are trying to counter with: "Well in my little utopia that's not the way it should be".
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #89
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The problem is that I am stating reality...
    Your "reality" argument has been countered -- in fact, it was accepted on its own terms, and THEN countered.
    You simply dont have a way to negate that counter.

    That is just the way it is, and you are going to have to accept it.

  10. #90
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No. Why should they be able to?
    Uhh because they did nothing and allowed someone to die who was fully able to pay for his medical costs. If someone in my family died because the hospital did absolutely nothing to help them, you bet your ass I'd be on the phone with a lawyer to sue them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    The bill then goes to the estate. If they estate cannot pay, then the hospital is stuck with it. As noted before, if the hospital cannot determine the patients ability to pay and they treat him anywway, they assume the risk of non-payment.
    A hospital is not a bank. Very often, they don't have access to any/much information about the patient when they have to make that decision. Do you really want hospitals to start refusing emergency care to anyone who doesn't have an insurance card in their pocket at the time of their emergency? For that matter, do you really want doctors to waste time rummaging through the patients' pockets to find an insurance card instead of treating them?

    This system is ridiculous and impractical, and the fact that you are even suggesting it means that you have your head in the clouds and don't want to deal with the real world.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-01-09 at 01:24 PM.
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