View Poll Results: Should healthcare insurance be mandatory for everyone?

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  • Yes. Explain please.

    14 28.00%
  • No. Explain please.

    36 72.00%
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Thread: Healthcare mandatory?

  1. #61
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Seriously, medical bills should be non bankrupt able bills.
    Why?
    Why should you not be responible for the goods and services provided to you by others?

  2. #62
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That is not a practical solution. If someone is in a car accident and is hemorrhaging blood when they're brought into the emergency room, how is the hospital going to know if they can pay or not?
    If they administer treatment before doing so, then they run the risk of not getting paid. Their choice.

    What it all boils down to is that there's no rational argument for me being responsible for your medical bills, and that you have a right to have me provide you the means to exercise your right (if any) to health care.

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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If healthcare is not mandatory, then those who refuse to get it, and cannot pay for services, should be denied, or at the least, the government, under no circumstances should subsidize in any way. No exceptions.



    If we go with a personal responsibility model, if someone chooses not to protect their health in this way, it is not the government's responsibility to pay. If a hospital, individual, or charity wants to cover it, fine, that is their choice. If they do not, no services.

  4. #64
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If they administer treatment before doing so, then they run the risk of not getting paid. Their choice.So, the hospital determines that the man has no money, no insurance, so they just let him die..

    What it all boils down to is that there's no rational argument for me being responsible for your medical bills,one unrealistic way way of looking it it and that you have a right to have me provide you the means to exercise your right (if any) to health care.
    This is an example of the wealthy man's(or his supporters) attitude that I speak of...
    If we do, in fact have a representative democracy, and Obama's health care reform is voted down, then, I'll have to move to a more civilized nation and give our country more time to grow up.

  5. #65
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    This is an example of the wealthy man's(or his supporters) attitude that I speak of...
    Not for a second disregarding the fact that you didnt actually address my argument...

    As opposed to a socialist, who has no issue with taking money from the haves and redistributing it among the have nots?

    Tell me, exactly, how it is that having the right to health care equates to having the right to force other people to provide you with the means to exercise your right to health care.

    If we do, in fact have a representative democracy, and Obama's health care reform is voted down, then, I'll have to move to a more civilized nation and give our country more time to grow up.
    You mean like all those all-show-and-no-go liberals that promised to leave if GWB were (re)elected?

    Dont let the door hit you in the Obama.

    And while you're on your way out, remember that if The Obama's plan does fail, it is because the DEMOCRATS failed to pass it.

  6. #66
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sure there is:
    -Those that provide the goods and services have a right to be compensated for same;
    -You do not have a right to expect others to pay for goods and services you receive
    -You are responsible for yourself, and you are responsible for the choices you make, regardless of the circumstances of those choices.
    OK, so since you think this is a practical alternative, please explain how it would work when someone is brought into the emergency room, bleeding and unconscious.

    Do the doctors rummage through the patients' pockets for an insurance card first, or do they not waste time and treat the patient as best they can? If they treat the patient and later discover that he doesn't have insurance, can they un-treat him? If they rummage through his pockets and don't find an insurance card, and refuse to treat the dying patient, can his family go back and sue the hospital if it turns out he did have health insurance?


    The point is...anyone who claims that hospitals should be allowed to deny emergency care to people without insurance hasn't even considered the practical ramifications of that.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-31-09 at 05:54 PM.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    OK, so since you think this is a practical alternative, please explain how it would work when someone is brought into the emergency room, bleeding and unconscious.
    Not sure why you think this is so difficult...
    The health care providers make a determination of the victim's ability to pay using whatever means they have available. If they determine the victim has insurance, then all is well; if they determine he does not, or they cannot make a determination, then they decide to treat him at their risk, or not treat him.

    If the victim does not have insurance, and the providers treat him then he, himself is financially responsible for the bills he incurrs.

    Your right to health care does not trump anyone's right to be compensated for the goods and services they provide, or euqate to the right to force others to provide you with the means to exercise your right to same.

    The point is...anyone who claims that hospitals should be allowed to deny emergency care to people without insurance hasn't even considered the practical ramifications of that.
    Obviously, that's not true.

  8. #68
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure why you think this is so difficult...
    The health care providers make a determination of the victim's ability to pay using whatever means they have available. If they determine the victim has insurance, then all is well; if they determine he does not, or they cannot make a determination, then they decide to treat him at their risk, or not treat him.
    So what is your answer to my other question: If they decide to do nothing, and it turns out he did have health insurance, can his family sue the hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    If the victim does not have insurance, and the providers treat him then he, himself is financially responsible for the bills he incurrs.
    What if he dies? You want to stick the hospital with the bill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    Your right to health care does not trump anyone's right to be compensated for the goods and services they provide,
    An unusual position, coming from someone who wants to saddle individual hospitals with individual debts that they didn't ask for, instead of spreading the cost out amongst the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    Obviously, that's not true.
    It is true, as you are STILL refusing to consider the practical consequences even after I pointed them out to you.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Since we live in a society where the vast majority of us have a conscience and thus no one is willing to deny someone life saving care if they need it, then its only fair for citizens in that society to have to have some sort of a catastrophic policy.

    People on here can dream up all the fantasy worlds they want where someone can be brought to a hospital in critical condition and simply be thrown out on the street to die if they can't pay for their treatment, but that is not reality, its never been reality, and unless the next generation is a bunch of sociopaths, its never going to be reality.

    The reality is that we as a nation have decided that it is unconscionable for anyone to be denied life saving care even if they have no way of paying for it. So when someone racks up huge medical bills and cannot pay, the costs are then passed on to everyone else. Thus, in a society like ours, you know, where most people have a conscience, its perfectly reasonable to require individuals that choose to live here to at least carry some sort of a minimal catastrophic policy so that in the event that they are brought to the hospital in critical condition or ate up with cancer, the bulk of the costs of their treatment will not be passed on to everyone else. This is no different than requiring drivers that want to drive on U.S. roads to at least have a minimal liability policy.

    If such a requirement were put in place, insurance companies would respond with very inexpensive catastrophic policies for individuals to purchase to meet that requirement. For example, if to protect everyone else, you simply required that individuals maintain a catastrophic only policy with at most a $10,000 deductible and 20% coinsurance.

    I priced the cost for that basic level of coverage for me:

    Cost: $27.81 a month

    Blue Cross Blue Shield Blue Rate Saver PPO.

    So for just requiring individuals that choose to live on U.S. soil to cary that basic level of coverage so that in the event that something catastrophic were to happen to them the taxpayers and those that choose to be insured did not have to bear the costs. This is nothing unique either. Even Hong Kong, the most free market economy on earth, with some of the lowest taxes on earth, requires those that live there to cary a catastrophic policy. It's not to protect you (although it does), but rather its to protect everyone else.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-31-09 at 10:02 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Healthcare mandatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not sure why you think this is so difficult...
    The health care providers make a determination of the victim's ability to pay using whatever means they have available. If they determine the victim has insurance, then all is well; if they determine he does not, or they cannot make a determination, then they decide to treat him at their risk, or not treat him.


    The Emergency Department cannot turn anyone away based on their ability or inability to pay. It's illegal.




    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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