View Poll Results: Is globalization a good thing?

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  • Yes, it is generally good

    13 25.49%
  • Roughly half good, half bad

    14 27.45%
  • No, it is generally bad

    24 47.06%
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Thread: Is globalization a good thing?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    Do you think globalization is a good thing?

    Please vote before reading my post.










    (Wheelan 201)

    Wheelan, Charles. Naked Economics: Undressing the Dismal Science. Boston: W. W. Norton & Company, 2003.

    I wrote the following for a school assignment, and felt it would apply:

    The antiglobalization argument certainly has merit, though it is terribly misinformed. The belief is, gargantuan corporations with overseas interests are merely taking advantage of the poverty stricken people, by forcing them to work in horrid sweatshops, and allowing child labor, and somehow making them worse off. Indeed, the corporations are taking advantage of cheap labor in countries such as China, Vietnam, and Bangladesh. The corporations are also paying their workers generous wages compared to standards of pay at domestic manufacturing firms. Sure it isn't $8.00 an hour, but it's much more than what they would be getting paid otherwise.

    The most ironic part is the antiglobalization protesters actually believe they would be doing the peasants of Vietnam some sort of favor by shutting down the Nike shoes plant, and forcing them out of their only means of income. Sounds like some favor!

    In his book, Wheelan clearly wanted to signify his stance on globalization - that it is merely human capital(human capital) on a global scale. When trade restrictions are lifted, some people may lose their jobs…a company may shut its doors due to foreign competition. But this is just another example of a point Wheelan made early in the book - creative destruction (Creative destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). To move forward on a global (or national) economic scale, we must realize that the benefits by far outweigh the costs. In lifting tariffs we would inherently cause a few problems, but solve many!

    Protesters of globalization would argue otherwise, that somehow putting a KFC in Bali, or sending jobs to Honduras is detrimental to the world. The opposite is true, however. In exporting economic interests we also export economic hope and prosperity. This can only hope to have a great positive effect on the world economy.
    Your are learning well grass hopper.

    Seriously though, what you wrote is exactly why globalization is good and I congratulate you on researching it beyond talking points.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Generally I'd say it was a bad thing. It gives a lot of power to large corporations and moves the control of our local and regional economies and societies even further away and it breaks down traditional cultures and societies.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #33
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Of course we have, where have you been? The U.S. auto industry has been in the dumper since the 70s, Detroit, once Motor City, is a virtual ghost town. Ford, GM and Chrysler have all bought into the "build crappy cars that fall apart so that people buy new cars more often" model and that's what allowed foreign builders like Toyota and Honda to make such massive inroads into the marketplace. We sold out, they didn't, now that we're finally figuring out our lesson, it's too late and most people won't buy American cars no matter what they do.

    The same is true of most other industries. There's virtually nothing where we lead the world in quality anymore. We sold our proverbial soul for cheap Chinese crap and low-paying overseas jobs.
    I am almost surrounded by new car manufacturers and parts manufacturers.

    The U.S. still has a lot of industry and more that is moving to us.
    My company is closing production in California and expanding production in my home state.

    Honda, Suzuki, Toyota, VW, Kia in Middle Georgia, and on and on.
    A lot of these guys have just opened shop on top of that.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    The antiglobalization argument certainly has merit, though it is terribly misinformed. The belief is, gargantuan corporations with overseas interests are merely taking advantage of the poverty stricken people, by forcing them to work in horrid sweatshops, and allowing child labor, and somehow making them worse off. Indeed, the corporations are taking advantage of cheap labor in countries such as China, Vietnam, and Bangladesh. The corporations are also paying their workers generous wages compared to standards of pay at domestic manufacturing firms. Sure it isn't $8.00 an hour, but it's much more than what they would be getting paid otherwise.

    The most ironic part is the antiglobalization protesters actually believe they would be doing the peasants of Vietnam some sort of favor by shutting down the Nike shoes plant, and forcing them out of their only means of income. Sounds like some favor!
    This does have a very early 19th century British utilitarian ring to it. Sort of like the factories may be bad but it is better than the alternative. The enclosures, laws of settlement and other such things are conveniently left out of the conversation.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-27-09 at 10:51 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #35
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Generally I'd say it was a bad thing. It gives a lot of power to large corporations and moves the control of our local and regional economies and societies even further away and it breaks down traditional cultures and societies.
    I agree that large corporations are a problem but being anti globalism doesn't address the deficiencies in a local or regional economy.

    It does provide a value added service and uses labor more efficiently than if we were to remain closed to that kind of trade.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #36
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I agree that large corporations are a problem but being anti globalism doesn't address the deficiencies in a local or regional economy.
    I believe it does. I believe the deficiencies are very much over stated and that the pluses of globalisation are only achievable thanks to massive state intervention.

    It does provide a value added service and uses labor more efficiently than if we were to remain closed to that kind of trade.
    That depends, it is hardly an organic thing, it took the state to create and maintain it. You couldn't even have a large corporation if the state had not set it up by state fiat, giving it personhood, splitting ownership from control in a perversion of common law ideals of property and giving it other privileges and welfare.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-27-09 at 10:53 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #37
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I believe it does. I believe the deficiencies are very much over stated and that the pluses of globalisation are only achievable thanks to massive state intervention.

    That depends, it is hardly an organic thing, it took the state to create and maintain it. You couldn't even have a large corporation if the state had not set it up by state fiat, giving it personhood, splitting ownership from control in a perversion of common law ideals of property and giving it other privileges and welfare.
    It doesn't take a state to facilitate trade, it takes the state to restrict trade.
    After all it is really just two or more individuals exchanging money for goods, goods for money, or goods for goods.

    In the end though, most wage labor manufacturing jobs will be outsourced to automation.

    For the record, I disagree with those kinds of "rights" for corporations but I see no reason to restrict trade between individuals.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 08-27-09 at 10:56 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #38
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It doesn't take a state to facilitate trade, it takes the state to restrict trade.
    After all it is really just two or more individuals exchanging money for goods, goods for money, or goods for goods.
    That is hypothetical, we are talking about reality mate. As I said in that post after you'd begun replying:

    You couldn't even have a large corporation if the state had not set it up by state fiat, giving it personhood, splitting ownership from control in a perversion of common law ideals of property and giving it other privileges and welfare.

    Plus obviously globalisation runs on transportation which is massively subsidised. For instance in the US heavy trucking does about 100% of roadbed damage and yet pays about 50% of upkeep costs. As Kevin Carson says in his Organisation theory: A Libertarian perspective:

    Not until 1971 did the federal government begin collecting user fees from airline passengers and freight shippers to recoup this investment. In 1988 the Congressional Budget Office found that in spite of user fees paid into the Airport and Airways Trust Fund, the taxpayers still had to transfer $3 billion in subsidies per year to the FAA to maintain its network of more than 400 control towers, 22 air traffic control centers, 1,000 radar-navigation aids, 250 long-range and terminal radar systems and its staff of 55,000 traffic controllers, technicians and bureaucrats.55.....To fully grasp how dependent the corporate economy is on socializing transportation costs, imagine what would happen if truck and aircraft fuel were taxed enough to pay the full cost of maintenance and new building costs on highways and airports; and if fossil fuels depletion allowances were removed. The result would be a massive increase in shipping costs. Does anyone seriously believe that Wal-Mart's national "warehouses on wheels" distribution system would be feasible, or corporate agribusiness could outcompete the family farm?

    In the end though, most wage labor manufacturing jobs will be outsourced to automation.
    I hope not. Work has an important place in human individuality and community.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 08-27-09 at 11:05 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #39
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    For the record, I disagree with those kinds of "rights" for corporations but I see no reason to restrict trade between individuals.
    In many ways neither do I but the system we are discussing is not built around such, it is built around these rights and numerous other interventions.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #40
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    Re: Is globalization a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That is hypothetical, we are talking about reality mate. As I said in that post after you'd begun replying:

    You couldn't even have a large corporation if the state had not set it up by state fiat, giving it personhood, splitting ownership from control in a perversion of common law ideals of property and giving it other privileges and welfare.

    Plus obviously globalisation runs on transportation which is massively subsidised. For instance in the US heavy trucking does about 100% of roadbed damage and yet pays about 50% of upkeep costs. As Kevin Carson says in his Organisation theory: A Libertarian perspective:

    Not until 1971 did the federal government begin collecting user fees from airline passengers and freight shippers to recoup this investment. In 1988 the Congressional Budget Office found that in spite of user fees paid into the Airport and Airways Trust Fund, the taxpayers still had to transfer $3 billion in subsidies per year to the FAA to maintain its network of more than 400 control towers, 22 air traffic control centers, 1,000 radar-navigation aids, 250 long-range and terminal radar systems and its staff of 55,000 traffic controllers, technicians and bureaucrats.55.....To fully grasp how dependent the corporate economy is on socializing transportation costs, imagine what would happen if truck and aircraft fuel were taxed enough to pay the full cost of maintenance and new building costs on highways and airports; and if fossil fuels depletion allowances were removed. The result would be a massive increase in shipping costs. Does anyone seriously believe that Wal-Mart's national "warehouses on wheels" distribution system would be feasible, or corporate agribusiness could outcompete the family farm?
    I understand, nearly everything I believe in is left to the hypothetical world.

    I was referring to goods and services not easily reproducible in ones local as being fine for trade.

    I heavily dislike large corporations as there is a huge disconnect between the managers and the laborers.
    I'm working the best way I can with what I have though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I hope not. Work has an important place in human individuality and community.
    Not all work will be outsourced that way but a lot of it will particularly assembly lines. I'm a witness to this at my current employer.
    Seeing a job that required 3 being reduced to 1.

    Factory labor is not helpful, at least in my opinion, in making a happy person.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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