View Poll Results: Where do you stand on UHC?

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  • I'm pro-choice and I support UHC

    22 46.81%
  • I'm pro-choice and I do not support UHC

    9 19.15%
  • I'm pro-life and I support UHC

    2 4.26%
  • I'm pro-life and I do not support UHC

    11 23.40%
  • Other (explain)

    3 6.38%
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Thread: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

  1. #31
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    My pro-choice position is not predicated on "my body, my choice". It is predicated on what I consider best for society-- which is minimizing the number of children born defective, unwanted, or into single parent homes while using the least intrusive policies available. By those criteria, pro-choice is a good policy. Subsidizing pre-natal care and abortion through universal health care is better.

    Likewise, my support for universal health care isn't based on government control, it is based on reducing overall medical expenditures and maintaining higher productivity in the workforce. I don't particularly care if people get to choose their own insurer or even their own doctor as long as the system works.
    and how many govt programs are operated better and cheaper than the private sector?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  2. #32
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    What makes you believe the government will not be focused on profit? If they don't seek to make a profit, the program will bankrupt itself or become a burden on this country, draining our cash and adding to the national debt.
    You are confusing profit with revenue. Obviously the government needs revenue to operate the program, but it doesn't need a profit. As long as the program breaks even (i.e. they charge enough in premiums/taxes to pay for the health expenditures), it is doing fine.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    You are confusing profit with revenue. Obviously the government needs revenue to operate the program, but it doesn't need a profit. As long as the program breaks even (i.e. they charge enough in premiums/taxes to pay for the health expenditures), it is doing fine.
    What makes you believe the government will not seek to make a profit?

  4. #34
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    and how many govt programs are operated better and cheaper than the private sector?
    The government is better at many things than the private sector is. Unfortunately, you chose to word your question in such a way that makes answering the question impossible. I could give you some examples of things that government can do more efficiently than the private sector, but I have a feeling you would respond to them all with "There IS no private sector for that." Well, there's a reason for that. Private sectors would be unprofitable.

    A few things that government can do better than the private sector: Administer justice. Develop infrastructure. Defend civilians. Provide (but not necessarily administer) health care. Provide (but not necessarily administer) education.

    A few things that the private sector can do better than the government:
    Allocate capital. Make a profit. Create jobs.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    What makes you believe the government will not seek to make a profit?
    Who is "the government"? Who would the profit go to?

    One of the defining characteristics of developed Western governments is that they provide services to the public and collect taxes to pay for them. They are almost never profitable. Usually, they have the opposite problem.

    Government programs just need to break even, not profit. The corporate model is not particularly effective for government, since the shareholders and customers are the same people (i.e. the American public). A non-profit organization is a better analogy for the government.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    You are so quick to call other people blind but you fail to accept that those other people are actually right. Abortion is not mentioned in the bill. That is Exactly why it will be covered by the bill. The Supreme Court ruled that unless specifically excluded, abortion counts as a "medical procedure". Medical procedures are covered under the current healthcare bill.

    @P/N excellent video by the way at the top of the page.
    So then your absence of evidence does is not the evidence of absence? It's good to know that you can't show how abortion will be publicly funded but yet somehow still manage to claim and be certain that it will be. Medical procedures are covered under MedicAid and yet somehow cosmetic surgery, abortions, dental etc aren't covered. Must have something to do with that Hyde thing.
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    You're right. Pro-choice should be called "pro-abortion rights" and pro-life should be renamed "pro-human rights" or "pro right to live".
    I find it amusing that I decry euphemisms in the abortion debate, and you agree, then use euphemisms to describe the side you are on. Stripped of any nicetied, the about is about the right to have an abortion, for or against.

  8. #38
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    and how many govt programs are operated better and cheaper than the private sector?
    Depends how you define better and cheaper. Better and cheaper for people who use it? I'd argue the current road system is better as a public good rather than a private good. If all of our road systems were privately run, toll systems with no standardization, the cost of business and cost of goods to consumers would be massive, resulting in on a societal basis, a worse and more expensive program.

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  9. #39
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I'm just curious how many people are pro-choice and support private health care. I can't honestly see how someone can say "It's my body, it's my choice" and "It's between me and my doctor" when it comes to abortion, but can allow a private corporation to interfere when it comes to health care. Because if private health care passes, it will no longer be "your choice", it will be the "the private corporation's choice" in regards to what they want to pay for. It will no longer be a choice that you and your doctor make because the bureaucracy of the corporation is now the ultimate voice in the matter.
    The difference being the private company will make decisions based on it's costumer's demands, whereas the government will make decisions based on what will get the politician re-elected.

    I'll trust the private businessman over any politician, any day. Also, if I don't like my private coverage i can get a new private carrier...I can not, however, get a new government.

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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The difference being the private company will make decisions based on it's costumer's demands, whereas the government will make decisions based on what will get the politician re-elected.
    This is false. A private company will make decisions based on a profit motive.

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