View Poll Results: Where do you stand on UHC?

Voters
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  • I'm pro-choice and I support UHC

    22 46.81%
  • I'm pro-choice and I do not support UHC

    9 19.15%
  • I'm pro-life and I support UHC

    2 4.26%
  • I'm pro-life and I do not support UHC

    11 23.40%
  • Other (explain)

    3 6.38%
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Thread: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

  1. #21
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I would actually like to see a video of him saying such.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk"]YouTube - SHOCK UNCOVERED: Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance[/ame]

    Enjoy!
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    why is it that some people can not see what is being done by inches because the populous would not accept it if implemented by the yard

    That is the undeniable outcome. The govt does not do things 'just a bit' They are in for a penny in for a pound

    they are going to sucker you chumps with their initial approach where it is Kombayah we just want to offer a cheap alternative, to well we need to expand to help you with this and than to help you with this and than it is the only thing available

    You have just given your life, your health, and 1/6th of the ecomony (which will get bigger with the govt involved) to those 'nobelmen in washington who thankfully have only your best interest at heart"

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  3. #23
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    I'm just curious how many people are pro-choice and support UHC. I can't honestly see how someone can say "It's my body, it's my choice" and "It's between me and my doctor" when it comes to abortion, but can allow the government to interfere when it comes to UHC.
    You make a big assumption here. A UHC program could merely reform insurance to mandate somewhat reasonable terms to everyone with assistance to those who can't afford insurance with no more government intervention than that. You'd keep your own doctor, your own choices, the only thing government would be involved in is reforming insurance. Please tell me how that in any way supports your later claims. UHC could also range into Palin-esque statements about death panels.

    UHC does not come in one form. Stop propagating that notion.

    That said, I'm for legal abortion with some restrictions, but UHC should not pay for it.
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Abortions will be funded by the proposed UHC program. If you don't believe that, then your eyes aren't open.
    So I can trust that this is all based on your biased green colored view of the bill and not any actual part of the bill? I'm only on page 150. Maybe you've read more and can show where the government funded abortions are?

    From some Christian website :

    Christians Decry Tax-Funded Abortion in Health Care Bill | Christianpost.com

    In the 1,018-page health care bill, there is no mention of abortion much less federal funding for abortion. However, opponents of abortion are worried about the silence on the issue. They maintain that without an explicit barring of federal funding for abortion, it could be covered by tax dollars.
    Now I don't know whether or not they've read the bill but from what I gather there seems to be no mention of abortion in the bill. At all. I mean the way I see it, the government and administrations has a million other social programs in which they could use tax payer money to fund abortions. Why wait for a bill they're gambling so much political money on to have tax payer funded abortions?

    ---------------------------

    Either way I explained to you already why being pro-UHC and being pro-choice are not positions which are in opposing of each other which was the question you posed. They're not even within the same paradigm. The government doesn't fund abortions and pro-choice is a matter of whether or not you should make reproductive decisions based on the beliefs, customs and values of other people. As of today there are millions of poor Americans who regardless of their position on abortion had to choose whether or not to have an abortion. For whatever reason they claim. It doesn't matter how religious the religious aren't above 'the choice' in any way. Matter of fact they have just as many abortions as the non-religious. Your question is a false dichotomy.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 08-26-09 at 04:29 AM.
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    I'm just curious how many people are pro-choice and support UHC. I can't honestly see how someone can say "It's my body, it's my choice" and "It's between me and my doctor" when it comes to abortion, but can allow the government to interfere when it comes to UHC. Because if UHC passes, it will no longer be "your choice", it will be the "government's choice" in regards to what they want to pay for. It will no longer be a choice that you and your doctor make because the bureaucracy of government is now the ultimate voice in the matter.
    This is exactly how it is now except an insurance company is deciding. I trust the government more than an insurance company who is focused on profit. I also don't think anyone will be forced to use UHC.
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    I do not consider myself "pro-choice", but as "pro abortion rights". I think the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are euphemisms used by those afraid of the word abortion.
    You're right. Pro-choice should be called "pro-abortion rights" and pro-life should be renamed "pro-human rights" or "pro right to live".
    I trust the government more than an insurance company who is focused on profit.
    What makes you believe the government will not be focused on profit? If they don't seek to make a profit, the program will bankrupt itself or become a burden on this country, draining our cash and adding to the national debt.
    And the government DOES want money. Hence the 27th amendment. If you honestly think that government cares more for you than themselves then you need to wake up. They are just as greedy and hungry for power and money as corporations. To deny this is playing right into their hands.

    I honestly don't understand why people believe that government programs can be successful if they don't actually make any money yet spend trillions. How can such a program be deemed successful?
    Last edited by Lakryte; 08-26-09 at 12:53 PM.

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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    I am pro choice but against the Health care socialism.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    I'm just curious how many people are pro-choice and support UHC. I can't honestly see how someone can say "It's my body, it's my choice" and "It's between me and my doctor" when it comes to abortion, but can allow the government to interfere when it comes to UHC. Because if UHC passes, it will no longer be "your choice", it will be the "government's choice" in regards to what they want to pay for. It will no longer be a choice that you and your doctor make because the bureaucracy of government is now the ultimate voice in the matter.
    Not neccesarily, no. Abortion is covered by the UK's NHS system, and it's still doctors that grant, arrange, and sign off on the procedure, not government officials or bureaucrats. There's nothing to say that any UHC system put in place in the US couldn't operate likewise.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    I'm just curious how many people are pro-choice and support UHC. I can't honestly see how someone can say "It's my body, it's my choice" and "It's between me and my doctor" when it comes to abortion, but can allow the government to interfere when it comes to UHC.
    My pro-choice position is not predicated on "my body, my choice". It is predicated on what I consider best for society-- which is minimizing the number of children born defective, unwanted, or into single parent homes while using the least intrusive policies available. By those criteria, pro-choice is a good policy. Subsidizing pre-natal care and abortion through universal health care is better.

    Likewise, my support for universal health care isn't based on government control, it is based on reducing overall medical expenditures and maintaining higher productivity in the workforce. I don't particularly care if people get to choose their own insurer or even their own doctor as long as the system works.

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    Re: Pro-choice and Pro-UHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    Now I don't know whether or not they've read the bill but from what I gather there seems to be no mention of abortion in the bill. At all. I mean the way I see it, the government and administrations has a million other social programs in which they could use tax payer money to fund abortions. Why wait for a bill they're gambling so much political money on to have tax payer funded abortions?
    You are so quick to call other people blind but you fail to accept that those other people are actually right. Abortion is not mentioned in the bill. That is Exactly why it will be covered by the bill. The Supreme Court ruled that unless specifically excluded, abortion counts as a "medical procedure". Medical procedures are covered under the current healthcare bill.

    @P/N excellent video by the way at the top of the page.

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