View Poll Results: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

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  • Multiculturalism is a good idea.

    9 20.45%
  • Multiculturalism is a bad idea.

    15 34.09%
  • Neither is a good idea.

    1 2.27%
  • Both are a good idea.

    3 6.82%
  • Assimilation is a good idea.

    15 34.09%
  • Assimilation is a bad idea.

    0 0%
  • Something else (please explain).

    1 2.27%
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Thread: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

  1. #11
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I have personally never been a fan of "multiculturalism" as a social decision-making guideline, as I feel it is one of social ideas out there which is completely bad, with no good aspects to it at all.
    We live in a global economy. If an American company plans to market its products in, say, India, which do you think would be more successful: A group of white Americans working on it, or a group of people who were born, raised, and lived most of their life in India?

    This is just one of the innumerable benefits I can think of offhand.
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    We live in a global economy. If an American company plans to market its products in, say, India, which do you think would be more successful: A group of white Americans working on it, or a group of people who were born, raised, and lived most of their life in India?

    This is just one of the innumerable benefits I can think of offhand.
    Benefits of what?

    Multiculturalism?

    What you discribe in your "example" is good marketing strategy, not Multiculturalism.
    --------------------------------
    What is your opinion of the caste system which still has influnce in India?

    If some subset of Indian immigrants tried to import such a system to a part of the USA (where said subset decided to live together) when they immigrated, would you go along with it?

    Or would you oppose it as being bigoted and unfair?

    In my mind, there are certain ideals which all people should embrace. This may be in part because I grew up in the USA, and have absorbed "American" values. Who knows?
    But just because they are "American", does that make them wrong?
    Or less viable than others?
    Or even equal to others?
    Can certain values which one culture holds not be better than another cultures values in the same area?
    Education.

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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    I think we may be working from different basic definitions then, and this may be the problem. I've always understood the term multiculturalism as meaning having pride in one's heritage and culture and trying to preserve it, even if this is not the dominant culture in their society, but I of course I that one must obey the laws of any nation one wishes to live in.
    I would agree that one aspect of multiculturalism might support preservation of an immigrant's former culture. But my view is that it does so at the expense of said immigrantsí absorption of their new culture. That it, rather than promoting a melding of cultures, embracing the new while preserving the old, promotes a rejection or dismissal of the new while clinging to the old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    One thing, I would say about the points you made above however, is that designating certain aspects of an immigrant community's culture as "good" and "bad" make for a fairly subjective judgment. Who decides this, and what's the criteria? Obviously when it comes to issues like domestic violence, we can make such judgments, but what happens when the only indication that a custom is "bad" is that it's a bit different to how things are done in the host country?
    In my mind, a "bad" cultural aspect would be one that conflicted with the laws/key cultural views of the new (to the immigrant) culture. Anything else would be acceptable, at least in general.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Benefits of what?

    Multiculturalism?

    What you discribe in your "example" is good marketing strategy, not Multiculturalism.
    My point is that if everyone is from the same culture and cannot easily understand other cultures, it will make our country less competitive in the global arena. It is helpful to have people with unique perspectives and backgrounds. Most large nations (China being the exception) are "melting pots." Our large population and diversity of viewpoints are what makes our economy strong and resilient. This would not be possible without multiculturalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark
    What is your opinion of the caste system which still has influnce in India?

    If some subset of Indian immigrants tried to import such a system to a part of the USA (where said subset decided to live together) when they immigrated, would you go along with it?

    Or would you oppose it as being bigoted and unfair?
    You seem to be narrowly defining multiculturalism as the acceptance of values completely abhorrent to one's own culture. The two are not the same thing. Of course I'd oppose a caste system.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark
    In my mind, there are certain ideals which all people should embrace. This may be in part because I grew up in the USA, and have absorbed "American" values. Who knows?
    But just because they are "American", does that make them wrong?
    Or less viable than others?
    Or even equal to others?
    Can certain values which one culture holds not be better than another cultures values in the same area?
    Of course. Human rights are better than totalitarian repression. Free speech is better than censorship. A free market is better than a command economy.

    Multiculturalism doesn't mean abandoning one's own values.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-23-09 at 05:29 PM.
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    My point is that if everyone is from the same culture and cannot easily understand other cultures, it will make our country less competitive in the global arena. It is helpful to have people with unique perspectives and backgrounds. Most large nations (China being the exception) are "melting pots." Our large population and diversity of viewpoints are what makes our economy strong and resilient. This would not be possible without multiculturalism.
    It appears I have/had a different understanding of what, exactly, "multiculturalism" is.
    All of what you say makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You seem to be narrowly defining multiculturalism as the acceptance of values completely abhorrent to one's own culture. The two are not the same thing. Of course I'd oppose a caste system.
    Not precisely.

    I was rather defining "multiculturalism" as a social decision-making framework which, when applied by members of the host culture(at least in some cases), influences persons who adhere to it towards decisions which may "accept values completely abhorrent to their own culture".
    The other side is that the same framework influences persons entering the host culture into decisions which, IMO, while preserving their former culture, also limit their absorption of the host culture.

    This may be an incorrect definition of the word "multiculturalism", but is not, I think, entirely incorrect in describing our current usage of something some call "multiculturalism" in some areas and situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Of course. Human rights are better than totalitarian repression. Free speech is better than censorship. A free market is better than a command economy.

    Multiculturalism doesn't mean abandoning one's own values.
    It does if those values are in conflict. Someone's values have to give.
    Education.

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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It does if those values are in conflict. Someone's values have to give.
    I don't think there's anything contradictory about saying "We welcome immigrants from all corners of the world and welcome their unique perspectives. But that doesn't mean you can disobey American laws."

    Celebrating Ramadan and praying five times a day, cool. Honor killings, not cool.
    Not eating beef and meditating after bathing, cool. Child marriages, not cool.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-23-09 at 05:52 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    This thread idea showed some promise, but I see it has turned into the great debate: why doesn't everyone just adopt the white culture?

    I don't think this question of assimilation need necessarily interfere with the idea of progressivism at all. Unless, of course, the prevailing opinion is that some cultures are incapable of progressing. And if that is the case, why bother? Assimilate what? How?

    Like Redress said (I think) the only solution is a combination of assimilation and multiculturalism. And the root (western) culture WILL change. Anyone who lives in America has to know this is true. Our culture has changed drastically just in my lifetime. And if you don't like it, then, well, tough ****. It's changing with or without you.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    This thread idea showed some promise, but I see it has turned into the great debate: why doesn't everyone just adopt the white culture?

    I don't think this question of assimilation need necessarily interfere with the idea of progressivism at all. Unless, of course, the prevailing opinion is that some cultures are incapable of progressing. And if that is the case, why bother? Assimilate what? How?

    Like Redress said (I think) the only solution is a combination of assimilation and multiculturalism. And the root (western) culture WILL change. Anyone who lives in America has to know this is true. Our culture has changed drastically just in my lifetime. And if you don't like it, then, well, tough ****. It's changing with or without you.
    Excellent points. I agree with you.
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't think there's anything contradictory about saying "We welcome immigrants from all corners of the world and welcome their unique perspectives. But that doesn't mean you can disobey American laws."

    Celebrating Ramadan and praying five times a day, cool. Honor killings, not cool.
    Not eating beef and meditating after bathing, cool. Child marriages, not cool.
    There's not.

    And if that is "multiculturalism", then I have little issue with it.

    I simply think that it can be taken too far.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #20
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    Re: Multiculturalism: Good idea or Bad?

    Diversity is a great thing.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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