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Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    Votes: 25 35.7%

  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    Votes: 36 51.4%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    Votes: 16 22.9%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    Votes: 7 10.0%

  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    Votes: 12 17.1%
  • Total voters
    70
The Mark said:
I very strongly doubt that you are in any way correct in this statement.
But feel free to present supporting evidence.
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Let me qualify my above statement:

I think, with the exception of drug related crimes, more innocent people are killed/injured by accidental shootings & mentally deranged attacks (with firearms) than are hurt/killed by professional criminals robbing banks...for example.
I have not had the time to look up FBI statistics on this (feel free to do so if you have them)

Further, I would be in favor of legalizing & taxing all drugs (to competent adults) as the only way I can see of ever stopping the drug violence prevalent in this country.
 
Devil505 said:
Let me qualify my above statement:

I think, with the exception of drug related crimes, more innocent people are killed/injured by accidental shootings & mentally deranged attacks (with firearms) than are hurt/killed by professional criminals robbing banks...for example.
I have not had the time to look up FBI statistics on this (feel free to do so if you have them)
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What you think and what the statistics say are 2 different things. Stop giving excuses and qualify your statement.

Devil505 said:
Further, I would be in favor of legalizing & taxing all drugs (to competent adults) as the only way I can see of ever stopping the drug violence prevalent in this country.
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Hmm... Fallacy.

Go figure.
 
Devil505 said:
Let me qualify my above statement:

I think, with the exception of drug related crimes, more innocent people are killed/injured by accidental shootings & mentally deranged attacks (with firearms) than are hurt/killed by professional criminals robbing banks...for example.
I have not had the time to look up FBI statistics on this (feel free to do so if you have them)

Further, I would be in favor of legalizing & taxing all drugs (to competent adults) as the only way I can see of ever stopping the drug violence prevalent in this country.
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Hm... I dont know how much time you spent dealing with ordinary runofthemill criminals, but almost none of them qualify as "professional" in their methodology. Most of them are drug addicts or alcoholics. Most of them have poor impulse control. Not uncommonly they kill people during the commision of crimes for no good reason.

Real "pro" criminals are maybe 1 per 1000. Murderous crazies like the Columbuine kids are also relatively rare compared to 300 million population...its the ordinary criminals that tend to kill people.
 
Goshin said:
Hm... I dont know how much time you spent dealing with ordinary runofthemill criminals, but almost none of them qualify as "professional" in their methodology.
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I have a lifetime of experience dealing with criminals. When I use the term "professional", I'm using the dictionary definition meaning that they earn their living at crime. (It has nothing to do with their aptitude for, or their ability at crime. Simply that they have chosen the profession of crime over ...say...bricklaying);)
Most criminals are really quite bad at it & not particularly smart to start with. Usually, nothing like what is portrayed in the movies.
 
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Devil505 said:
I have a lifetime of experience dealing with criminals. When I use the term "professional", I'm using the dictionary definition meaning that they earn their living at crime. (It has nothing to do with their aptitude for, or their ability at crime. Simply that they have chosen the profession of crime over ...say...bricklaying);)
Most criminals are really quite bad at it & not particularly smart to start with. Usually, nothing like what is portrayed in the movies.
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Dodging the question yet again...

He said...

"Real "pro" criminals are maybe 1 per 1000. Murderous crazies like the Columbuine kids are also relatively rare compared to 300 million population...its the ordinary criminals that tend to kill people." - Goshin

In responce to your statement...

"I think, with the exception of drug related crimes, more innocent people are killed/injured by accidental shootings & mentally deranged attacks (with firearms) than are hurt/killed by professional criminals robbing banks...for example.
I have not had the time to look up FBI statistics on this (feel free to do so if you have them)" - Devil505

Now qualify your statement.

You say you don't have time, but you have time to reply to other messages?
 
Devil505 said:
Those ideas are great for fairyy tales & feel good movies. As far as reality is concerned, what you CAN do is make extremely lethal weapons (full auto, etc) very rare & out of reach of most suicidal teens. These type weapons have zero benefit to society outside of the military anyway.
As a society, we have much more to fear from suicidal teen crazies than we do from criminal types. Criminals wants money........Nut jobs want to kill!
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Fully automatic weapons are already unconstitutionally banned by the government. If people want to kill themselves, then so be it; I don't care so long as they don't take others out with them. But we can't start infringing upon rights because of what people may or may not do.
 
Devil505 said:
Let me qualify my above statement:

I think, with the exception of drug related crimes, more innocent people are killed/injured by accidental shootings & mentally deranged attacks (with firearms) than are hurt/killed by professional criminals robbing banks...for example.
I have not had the time to look up FBI statistics on this (feel free to do so if you have them)

Further, I would be in favor of legalizing & taxing all drugs (to competent adults) as the only way I can see of ever stopping the drug violence prevalent in this country.
Click to expand...

Accidental shootings aren't very common. When it comes to accidents resulting in death, the number is less than that of gravity I believe.
 
Ikari said:
But we can't start infringing upon rights because of what people may or may not do.
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Funny....I'll bet you never complained when GW Bush & Cheney did that very thing on a national level, did you?
 
Devil505 said:
Funny....I'll bet you never complained when GW Bush & Cheney did that very thing on a national level, did you?
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Funny, you're running your mouth pretty hard for someone who doesn't know anything about me or my platform. Maybe you can go look at my post history before you open that pie hole of yours again and prove yourself a fool.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I think that exact opposite... since people came up with the Rights, it is people that can void or change the Rights.
Anybody who does not understand this concept needs to be seriously ignored.
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So you believe in censorship?
 
Devil505 said:
I spent most of my life as a Special Agent in the Justice Dept. so I'm quite familiar with your world,
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DOJ doesn't have "special agents," per se. The special agent position exists only with the following branches of justice:

FBI
DEA
OIG

IF he'd been a SA with either FBI or DEA, he'd refer to them by name. That leaves OIG, which doesn't handle drug cases. It's primary function is addressing financial mismanagement.

So, no, I don't buy it for a millisecond.
 
Ikari said:
Fully automatic weapons are already unconstitutionally banned by the government.
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No, they're not. They're very, very heavily regulated.
 
I think there should be one regulation as far as firearms go. It should be illegal not to carry a gun on your person, in public.
 
apdst said:
No, they're not. They're very, very heavily regulated.
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For most circumstances they are all but banned. Many are, some you can get proper stamps/permits for which I think is all BS.
 
celticlord said:
"Shall not be infringed" == no.
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Well if you're a violent criminal you don't have the right for it to then be infringed.

You don't have the right to nukes or flamethrowers as those are not "arms", so again, nothing is infringed here.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
DOJ doesn't have "special agents," per se. The special agent position exists only with the following branches of justice:

FBI
DEA
OIG

IF he'd been a SA with either FBI or DEA, he'd refer to them by name. That leaves OIG, which doesn't handle drug cases. It's primary function is addressing financial mismanagement.

So, no, I don't buy it for a millisecond.
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Devil, I'm wondering if you have an answer to the assertion above. I wasn't aware of that information, since I was just a county cop and never had much to do with the Feds... but it does make one wonder, when combined with some of the things you've said that make me wonder if you had much to do with ordinary street criminals.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I think some further explanation would be in order.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
DOJ doesn't have "special agents," per se. The special agent position exists only with the following branches of justice:

FBI
DEA
OIG

IF he'd been a SA with either FBI or DEA, he'd refer to them by name. That leaves OIG, which doesn't handle drug cases. It's primary function is addressing financial mismanagement.

So, no, I don't buy it for a millisecond.
Click to expand...

I was a DEA Special Agent & graduated from Basic Agent class # 4 in May, 1974. If the Debate Politics administration wants verification of this they can contact me & I would be happy to provide proof & or DP can contact DEA itself Drug Enforcement Administration Home. ( I will be happy to contact DEA & authorize release of my info to DP Forum admin) If you want proof, go through the DP forum admin...End of discussion.
 
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Goshin said:
Devil, I'm wondering if you have an answer to the assertion above. I wasn't aware of that information, since I was just a county cop and never had much to do with the Feds... but it does make one wonder, when combined with some of the things you've said that make me wonder if you had much to do with ordinary street criminals.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I think some further explanation would be in order.
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My answer is posted below. Will you be willing to make the same offer to verify your bonafides?






Devil505 said:
I was a DEA Special Agent & graduated from Basic Agent class # 4 in May, 1974. If the Debate Politics administration wants verification of this they can contact me & I would be happy to provide proof & or DP can contact DEA itself Drug Enforcement Administration Home.( I will be happy to contact DEA & authorize release of my info to DP Forum admin). If you want proof, go through the DP forum admin....End of discussion.
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Ikari said:
For most circumstances they are all but banned. Many are, some you can get proper stamps/permits for which I think is all BS.
Click to expand...

I agree with the BS part, but you can own any automatic weapon you want, as long as you possess the proper license. I think the only requirements are that it has to be man-portable and can't have a recoil system. I think it has to be under a certain bore size, but I'm not sure about that one.
 
Devil505 said:
Those ideas are great for fairyy tales & feel good movies. As far as reality is concerned, what you CAN do is make extremely lethal weapons (full auto, etc) very rare & out of reach of most suicidal teens. These type weapons have zero benefit to society outside of the military anyway.
Click to expand...

Except to make sure that society as a whole can stop the government from taking away our rights.

Declaration of Independence shows that we have that right. Weather the current government believes it or not.
 
Devil505 said:
My answer is posted below. Will you be willing to make the same offer to verify your bonafides?
Click to expand...

If a Mod/Admin I trust wants to check my bonafides, I'm fine with that. Otherhandwise, I'm not giving out personal info on DP's forums, since I still live in the same county I LEO'ed in. Given how hysterical some posters get on here, I don't care to be that easily located.
 
Goshin said:
If a Mod/Admin I trust wants to check my bonafides, I'm fine with that. Otherhandwise, I'm not giving out personal info on DP's forums, since I still live in the same county I LEO'ed in. Given how hysterical some posters get on here, I don't care to be that easily located.
Click to expand...

You can trust Tashah.
 
Devil505 said:
I was a DEA Special Agent & graduated from Basic Agent class # 4 in May, 1974. If the Debate Politics administration wants verification of this they can contact me & I would be happy to provide proof & or DP can contact DEA itself Drug Enforcement Administration Home. ( I will be happy to contact DEA & authorize release of my info to DP Forum admin) If you want proof, go through the DP forum admin...End of discussion.
Click to expand...


Good enough for me, thank you.


I've been trying to account for the differences in our perceptions about certain things; criminals and criminality most especially.

I suppose the fact that you were a Fed and I was County, you're liberal and I'm more-or-less conservative is probably explanation enough. Our experiences would have been very different I expect.
 
Goshin said:
If a Mod/Admin I trust wants to check my bonafides, I'm fine with that. Otherhandwise, I'm not giving out personal info on DP's forums, since I still live in the same county I LEO'ed in. Given how hysterical some posters get on here, I don't care to be that easily located.
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..............................................:shock:
 
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