• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?


  • Total voters
    70
Please, if you are ignorant dont offer advice that vould get someone in deep ****.

I didn't offer advice. I posted a link to the NRA's review of California state law. As noted in the link I provided:

SOURCE: Cal. Penal Code §12020 et. seq.

Take your ignorant complaints to the state of California.
 
Not being mean, but the I would love the irony of you getting shot and killed because there wasn't enough regulations. Same goes for everyone else wanting no regulations for gun ownership.

Not being mean, but I would love the irony of you being butt-raped by a man with a knife because you refused to own a gun.
 
Okay, so you've proven that at least two police officers in the history of America have been disarmed, so what? Besides rebutting Kor, what is your point?

Besides THAT Mrs. Lincoln....How was the play?:lol:

Is this meaningless aberration supposed to prove a trend of some sort?
It was meant to prove that even well trained cops can be overpowered & have the guns taken away, so how difficult a target would "Miss Landers" be for a couple of crazed teens?
 
Last edited:
I didn't offer advice. I posted a link to the NRA's review of California state law. As noted in the link I provided:



Take your ignorant complaints to the state of California.

You posted and bolded ca law without finding out if it was relavant. Damn ignant if you ask me
 
It was meant to prove that even well trained cops can be overpowered & have the guns taken away, so how difficult a target would "Miss Landers" be for a couple of crazed teens?

Not all cops are "well-trained".

Also, who said Miss Landers is getting a gun? I'm giving one to Coach Kooi. The thought of some snot-nosed little teenager trying to disarm him is hysterical!

Please, no more red herrings.
 
Another point. Only in your non-thinking world would "Miss Landers" get a gun. Why not give one to Coach Kooi, my old trigonometry teacher? I'd like to see you take his gun...:lol:
Hell, try to take a gun from my high school chemistry teacher and he'll paint the classroom with your guts. He was a Marine mustang officer in the early years of Vietnam who spent the war training Montagnards in guerilla warfare. That ol' boy put up with nobody's ****.

I'd be all for letting guys like that open carry in school. He'd have dropped those kids from Columbine faster than you can say Avogadro's number.
 
Please, no more red herrings.


Red herring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Search Wiktionary Look up red herring in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Red herring may refer to:


* Red herring (idiom), a deliberate attempt to divert attention
* Red herring (logical fallacy), a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument



My analogy was exactly on point.
If anyone is attempting to divert attention or change the subject, it is not me.
 
It was meant to prove that even well trained cops can be overpowered & have the guns taken away, so how difficult a target would "Miss Landers" be for a couple of crazed teens?


Me said:
If it were as easy to take a gun away from someone as certain people are prone to claim, the response would be: just take it back. After all, apparently it is SO easy to take guns from people. (/irony)

Currently CCW permits require weapons to be concealed. If your weapon is properly concealed, a person will not know you are packing. If they don't know you are packing, how will they take what they do not know you have?


If they suspect you are packing, first they have to figure out where your gun is hidden. Belt holster under a concealing garment? Left side, right side, small of back, appendix position? Pocket gun? Which pocket? Shoulder holster? Does the holster have a retention feature like a thumb-break strap?

I teach this stuff as an instructor: teach people how to take guns away from others, and how to prevent others from taking their gun. It isn't as remotely simon-simple as some people try to paint it.


Cops carry their guns in plain sight, making them much more likely to endure a gun-grab by a perp. Also, many cops suck at weapons-retention skills (I used to be one, I know from experience.)
 
You posted and bolded ca law without finding out if it was relavant. Damn ignant if you ask me

Jallman was curious about registering an antique firearm. I posted information on California's laws regarding owning/registering antique firearms. Seems "relavant" [sic] to me. *shrug*

Regardless, Jallman's response indicates that the information provided was relevant to him. Your snotty opinion matters not. :2wave:
 
Cops carry their guns in plain sight, making them much more likely to endure a gun-grab by a perp.
I suggest that the kids would easily find out which teachers were packing & target them first. Nothing is secret in JHS or HS.
(as Al Capone once said: "Two people are perfectly capable of keeping a secret.........As long as one of them is dead!")

Also, many cops suck at weapons-retention skills (I used to be one, I know from experience.)
So teachers would be better at weapons retention skills?
 
Last edited:
I suggest that the kids would easily find out which teachers were packing & target them first. Nothing is secret in JHS or HS.
(as Al Capone once said: "Two people are perfectly capable of keeping a secret.........As long as one of them is dead!")


So teachers would be better at weapons retention skills?


How would kids find out which teachers are packing? Specifics, not generalities, please.

How would knowing a teacher was armed encourage students to attack him or her in order to obtain a firearm...when in point of fact there are far easier ways for them to obtain guns on the black market! If they can get weed, they can get a gun, and any teenage wild-child knows how to get weed. Also, I remember Coach Carlisle and Coach Bolick....they were scary enough unarmed, if I knew they were armed I'd be twice as unlikely to mess with them. (and I am not now and never was a wuss!)

I teach armed and unarmed self-defense, shooting, disarming and retention to civilians. IMHO the average CCW is probably about as well-trained in the handling of arms as the average cop. I've known more (numerically more) CCW permit holders to go on and seek advanced training (and pay out of their pocket for it) than I've known ordinary street-cops to do the same.

I would know, because that sort of thing is part of my world.
 
Last edited:
Jallman was curious about registering an antique firearm. I posted information on California's laws regarding owning/registering antique firearms. Seems "relavant" [sic] to me. *shrug*

Regardless, Jallman's response indicates that the information provided was relevant to him. Your snotty opinion matters not. :2wave:



forgive my "snotty attitude", but your ignorance on this subject is glaring. winchester still makes firearms today, therefore, claiming because it is a winchester it must be an "antique" is ignorant...


Furthermore, you never asked him which winchester it was and when it was made, and therefore your bolding of CA law demonstrated purposeful stupidity on your part.


Tell you what, when he wants to know about tofu and how to abort a baby at 10 monts he goes to you, when he wants to know about guns he comes to people like me who may know a bit more than you do... mmmmmkay? :lol:
 
How would kids find out which teachers are packing? Specifics, not generalities, please.
Specifics eh? We are talking about hypothetical situations so anything I say you can shoot down as not specific.
Suffice it to say that most schools are not CIA Headquarters & secrets are few & far between.

How would knowing a teacher was armed encourage students to attack him or her in order to obtain a firearm...when in point of fact there are far easier ways for them to obtain guns on the black market!
I disagree. Knowing all they have to do is overpower Miss Landers is a very easy way to get a gun.




I teach armed and unarmed self-defense, shooting, disarming and retention to civilians. IMHO the average CCW is probably about as well-trained in the handling of arms as the average cop. I've known more (numerically more) CCW permit holders to go on and seek advanced training (and pay out of their pocket for it) than I've known ordinary street-cops to do the same.

I would know, because that sort of thing is part of my world.

I spent most of my life as a Special Agent in the Justice Dept. so I'm quite familiar with your world, & to argue that school personnel would make good candidates for advanced firearms training/tactical use is simply not a compelling argument to me.
 
Specifics eh? We are talking about hypothetical situations so anything I say you can shoot down as not specific.
Suffice it to say that most schools are not CIA Headquarters & secrets are few & far between.

I wouldn't want to disappoint you, so I'll say it: not specific enough. :mrgreen:

I'm not so old that I don't remember school. Sure there's a rumor-mill, a huge one...but the leakage between the teachers' rumor-mill and the student rumor-mill is mostly one-way. There was a rumor that my 10th grade English teacher carried a pistol in her purse... no one ever tried to find out for sure, and no one messed with her, and I have no idea if the rumor was true. At most students might have a suspicion that Mr. X or Ms Y was armed, but no certainty. They're as likely to guess wrong as right, or more so.

Now, another point... students will ill-intentions are already bringing guns to school, guns obtained elsewhere. The Columbine killers obtained their weapons from nonschool sources.

If there had been a few armed adult staffmembers at Columbine the body count might have been far lower.


Next point: there are already some guns in schools. The "resource officers", LE's, typically carry them in plain sight. A couple of big, strong, young thugs acting together could have a decent chance of getting his gun, and they KNOW he has one because it is in plain sight. So, why doesn't this happen more often? Answer: because it is risky and there are easier ways of getting a gun.

Taking a gun from Coach Bolick would be just as risky, IF you knew for sure he was packing and IF you could figure out WHERE the gun was concealed.


I disagree. Knowing all they have to do is overpower Miss Landers is a very easy way to get a gun.

As someone said, it is improbable that little Miss Landers, the delicate little flower that she is, will be one of the people packing. Let's say perhaps she's not so delicate as she seems, and she IS packing... first they have to know that she is with reasonable certainty (see CONCEALED CARRY), they need to figure out where the gun is concealed FIRST if they want to get to it before she does, and then they have to carry out their nefarious plot and hope the rumor mill was correct.

Easier to buy a 'gat from the same guy you get your weed from and sneak it in.

I spent most of my life as a Special Agent in the Justice Dept. so I'm quite familiar with your world, & to argue that school personnel would make good candidates for advanced firearms training/tactical use is simply not a compelling argument to me.


My respects for your service, then... but I suspect that since I've been teaching civilians for several years now, I have a better appreciation than you, perhaps, for how many of them are indeed both willing and able to absorb advanced firearms training.

G.
 
I voted yes, but only reasonable regulations. People must remember that the were no such things as flame throwers (though I do not see the harm in a person owning one), nuclear weapons and other modern technology. Thus, only handguns, rifles, and the such should be unregulated.

There was artillery and artillery is regulated.
 
I wouldn't want to disappoint you, so I'll say it: not specific enough. :mrgreen:

I'm not so old that I don't remember school.
I'll admit that when I was in grade school (1950s) that there were only about 5 facts to learn....assuming I wasn't eaten by a Tyrannosaurus Rex on my way to school.......But I also remember school quite well!


Sure there's a rumor-mill, a huge one...but the leakage between the teachers' rumor-mill and the student rumor-mill is mostly one-way. There was a rumor that my 10th grade English teacher carried a pistol in her purse... no one ever tried to find out for sure, and no one messed with her, and I have no idea if the rumor was true. At most students might have a suspicion that Mr. X or Ms Y was armed, but no certainty. They're as likely to guess wrong as right, or more so.

Now, another point... students will ill-intentions are already bringing guns to school, guns obtained elsewhere. The Columbine killers obtained their weapons from nonschool sources.

If there had been a few armed adult staffmembers at Columbine the body count might have been far lower.
You have a point & I don't pretend to know the best answer for stopping school killings. I just know that I don't like the idea of guns & childeren in close proximity & school personnel don't fill me with great confidence as potential Rambos.
 
forgive my "snotty attitude", but your ignorance on this subject is glaring. winchester still makes firearms today, therefore, claiming because it is a winchester it must be an "antique" is ignorant...

Maybe you're the ignorant one. Here's Jall's original question:

I actually don't even know how to go about registering or permitting a gun that's been passed down in my family. Do I even have to register a really old hunting rifle? Or is it just handguns?

Please point out the word "Winchester" in that post. Thanks.

Furthermore, you never asked him which winchester it was and when it was made, and therefore your bolding of CA law demonstrated purposeful stupidity on your part.

:doh I probably didn't ask him which Winchester it was and when it was made because at that point he hadn't mentioned that he had a Winchester (that came much later in post 159). Ya think? As for my "bolding of California law," I suspect that, since he indicates that he lives in San Francisco, the gun laws of, say, Vermont, wouldn't be of much help to him.

Tell you what, when he wants to know about tofu and how to abort a baby at 10 monts he goes to you

More snotty insults. Pure class, Rev. :roll:

when he wants to know about guns he comes to people like me who may know a bit more than you do... mmmmmkay?

Given your demonstrated inability to follow a simple conversation, I'm thinking you're probably not the guy he's going to go to for clarification on anything in these fora. But that's for Jall to decide, isn't it?

:roll:
 
Red herring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Search Wiktionary Look up red herring in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Red herring may refer to:


* Red herring (idiom), a deliberate attempt to divert attention
* Red herring (logical fallacy), a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument



My analogy was exactly on point.
If anyone is attempting to divert attention or change the subject, it is not me.

Well, since no one suggested giving a firearm to "Miss Landers", your hypothetical involving her disarmament indeed represents a red herring, or a non-sequitur, or a straw man; depends on how you look at it, I guess. Point is, it's a logical fallacy.

Now, would you care to address the points I've actually made, because my argument doesn't concern Miss Landers. She's not getting a gun. Coach Kooi is getting a gun and he's concealing it in a shoulder holster:

bia22_2_s.jpg


Assuming anyone could actually find out that he was armed, Coach Kooi is also a huge badass, which makes the idea of some angsty adolescent(s) disarming him quite hilarious.
 
Well, since no one suggested giving a firearm to "Miss Landers", your hypothetical involving her disarmament indeed represents a red herring, or a non-sequitur, or a straw man; depends on how you look at it, I guess. Point is, it's a logical fallacy.
I don't have time to go back now but if you scroll back in this thread, someone suggested arming school teachers. No red herring here.
 
I don't have time to go back now but if you scroll back in this thread, someone suggested arming school teachers. No red herring here.

Yes, BUT they didn't suggest arming "Miss Landers", that was YOUR straw man/red herring/non-sequitur.

Do you have anything to add to this discussion besides a slew of badly disguised logical fallacies?
 
Yes, BUT they didn't suggest arming "Miss Landers", that was YOUR straw man/red herring/non-sequitur.

Do you have anything to add to this discussion besides a slew of badly disguised logical fallacies?


OK....I get it. Unless the poster had named Miss Landers ...By Name....my comment was a red herring.:lol:
 
Back
Top Bottom