View Poll Results: Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

Voters
95. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    39 41.05%
  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    45 47.37%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    22 23.16%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    11 11.58%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    1 1.05%
  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    16 16.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 58 of 69 FirstFirst ... 848565758596068 ... LastLast
Results 571 to 580 of 681

Thread: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

  1. #571
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    NO. You go do your own homework.
    Ah. You concede the argument in that you refuse to back up your position with anything other than you saying that your position is correct.
    Figured as much

    Whatever you say Goobie. Its a red herring.
    Its YOUR herring.
    YOU said "'[the] Right to Life' is in the Declaration of Independance, not the Constitution, and thus carries no legal weight"
    and "The word 'right' does not appear in the fifth amendment"

    So, I ask again:
    You have no right to life, liberty or property?


    Bull. You are twisting terminology. Liberty = freedom from incarceration in this context. Bull. Fines = property.
    Show this to be true.
    Please cite any SCotuS decision that rules that the only constitutionally valid penalties are fines and/or imprisonment, with all others violating the 5th and 8th amendments.

    To be completely accurate, I think the founders meant to leave capital punishment up to the states, with the exception of treason. I don't think the constitution was an accident.
    And so, you DO agree that there ARE punishments other than fines and imprisonment that do NOT violate the 5th and 8th amendments.

    No, they are rights, and they cannot be violated after incarceration is over.
    Which is a valid point ONLY if you can show that the ONLY constitutionally acceptabe punishments are fines/improsonments.

    So, when you do that -- actually SHOW it rather than simplay make the statement and demand that it is true -- you'll have a leg to stand on.

  2. #572
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This destroys any argument that depriving felons the right to vote violates the Constitution, under the 5th, 8th or otherwise.
    To this end:

    Richardson v. Ramirez, 418 U.S. 24 (1974)


    2. California, in disenfranchising convicted felons who have completed their sentences and paroles, does not violate the Equal Protection Clause. Pp. 418 U. S. 41-56.

    (a) The understanding of the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment, as reflected in the express language of 2 of the Amendment, which exempts from the sanction of reduced congressional representation resulting from the denial of citizens' right to vote the denial of such right for "participation in rebellion, or other crime," and in the historical and judicial interpretation of the Amendment's applicability to state laws disenfranchising felons, is of controlling significance in distinguishing such laws from those other state limitations on the franchise that this Court has held invalid under the Equal Protection Clause. Pp. 418 U. S. 54-55.


    (b) Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which contains the Equal Protection Clause, in dealing with voting rights as it does, could not have been meant to bar outright a form of disenfranchisement that was expressly exempted from the less drastic sanction of reduced representation that 2 imposed for other forms of disenfranchisement. P. 418 U. S. 55.

    (c) Even if 2 was made part of the Amendment "largely through the accident of political exigency, rather than for the relation which it bore to the other sections of Amendment,'" as respondents contend, this does not preclude looking to it for guidance in interpreting 1, since 2 is as much a part of the Amendment
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-23-09 at 04:49 PM.

  3. #573
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ah. You concede the argument
    I don't concede a thing. You didn't provide the incident I asked for, but you remembered to edit it out of your response, didn't ya ?

    Go do your own homework, I'm not your law clerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    in that you refuse to back up your position with anything other than you saying that your position is correct.
    False. My reasoning may be simple, but that does not make it unsound. My reasons are mostly quoted directly from the Bill of Rights, or other Constitutional Amendments, but also from documents like the Declaration, and even possibly subjective notions about the spirit of this country :

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    It is not logical to release a man but release him as a second class citizen with a neutered set of rights. We are supposed to have one set of equal rights for all citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its YOUR herring.
    Naw, it is your, ad hominem, red herring, loaded question.

    Its not relevant to the discussion, as I am not a felon, nor incarcerated.

    Thanks for playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Show this to be true.
    Please cite any SCotuS decision that rules that the only constitutionally valid penalties are fines and/or imprisonment, with all others violating the 5th and 8th amendments.
    Right after you show me an incident where fines and punishment were found to be in violation of the eighth.

    I am not your law clerk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And so, you DO agree that there ARE punishments other than fines and imprisonment that do NOT violate the 5th and 8th amendments.
    Sure. Do they have to do with this topic tho ?

    Do you think a dead man can vote ?

    Do you think a dead man can exercise second amendment rights ?

    Perhaps I discussed the topic as I would with a grown up who can see one step down the road, and this was my error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Which is a valid point ONLY if you can show that the ONLY constitutionally acceptabe punishments are fines/improsonments.
    Show me another one mentioned in the fifth

    Other than execution, which I believe I have covered.

  4. #574
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:33 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,804

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    As I explained, NO , IT DOES NOT.
    You don't explain why it isn't, you just say it isn't and expect us to think that since you said it, you are correct... you aren't.



    Your "Consequence", is a violation of the Second Amendment, since we end up with a member of "the people" who's right to keep and bear arms is permanently infringed.
    Minors are citizens too, apparently you think that a five year-old should be able to carry around an AK-47?


    It is merely how it has been, and it has been an ongoing violation of our constitution. It is not logical to release a man but release him as a second class citizen with a neutered set of rights. We are supposed to have one set of equal rights for all citizens. Citizens convicted of crimes are still citizens. As such, denying them their rights, whether they be suffrage, or the right to keep and bear, or the right to buy a home for sale in an overzealous sex offender bailiwick, is unconstitutional.
    A person that commits murder and is imprisoned is still a citizen. Logic would dictate that you feel that convicted felons, while in prison, should be able to own and carry guns. This is where your logic is flawed...

    Nope, once we restrict certain rights, that bridge is already crossed and then it is logical to follow that course of action once it has been deemed appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #575
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:33 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,804

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Sex offender crap ? OBVIOUS violation of the fifth and the fourteenth.
    You think that sex offenders should have all rights and privileges that everybody else has? The right to work in a preschool and be alone with 4 year-olds? I seriously hope this is not what you are saying because it is disgusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #576
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Arrow Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You don't explain why it isn't, you just say it isn't and expect us to think that since you said it, you are correct... you aren't.
    A false characterization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    The fact that we currently punish citizens after release does not justify itself.

    Its just what we are doing now, and that does not add in to a discussion of whether it is the right thing to do or not.

    I disagree with the practice, completely.

    A free citizen has the right to weapons for self defense.
    This need does not go away just because the citizen did time.

    Sex offenders ? What a joke, unnecessarily hassling most, ineffectively ignored in cases where it might really matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Minors are citizens too, apparently you think that a five year-old should be able to carry around an AK-47?
    Can you quote ME saying that, or is that you making up a strawman ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Logic would dictate that you feel
    So logic dictates what I feel ?

    Really ? Um, NO.

    This and the blather that followed it, is merely another attempt by you, to fashion a strawman.

  7. #577
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You think that sex offenders should have all rights and privileges that everybody else has? The right to work in a preschool and be alone with 4 year-olds? I seriously hope this is not what you are saying because it is disgusting.
    Yawn. Say a guy gets falsely accused of rape, and qualifies for the list.

    No reason to use a stupid blanket law to do the job of a pre-school principal.

    The list itself, is stupid, and also a violation of the fifth.

    People that want to hump children, do not have a problem breaking your rule about lists either.

    Bothering to have a list just hassles all the wrong people, while your bogeyman scare case will ignore it anyway.

  8. #578
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:33 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,804

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    A false characterization.
    Just a simple observation...


    Originally Posted by Voidwar
    The fact that we currently punish citizens after release does not justify itself.
    I disagree with the practice, completely.
    A free citizen has the right to weapons for self defense.

    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    Minors are citizens too, apparently you think that a five year-old should be able to carry around an AK-47?

    Originally Posted by Voidwar
    Can you quote ME saying that, or is that you making up a strawman ?
    Just a simple extension of logic.

    My 4 year-old daughter is a free citizen, and you say that a free citizen has the right to weapons for self defense, consequently it goes that you think that a five year-old should be able to carry around an AK-47.


    So logic dictates what I feel ?

    Really ? Um, NO.
    ummm... yeah, I should have said "think", good one voidwar, really clever.


    This and the blather that followed it, is merely another attempt by you, to fashion a strawman
    It is a question so that we understand what you are really saying, since you have this childish habit of saying that you say something when you really don't. Seriously, it is like pulling teeth trying to get you to actually make a solid, logical statement sometimes...


    Yawn. Say a guy gets falsely accused of rape, and qualifies for the list.

    No reason to use a stupid blanket law to do the job of a pre-school principal.

    The list itself, is stupid, and also a violation of the fifth.

    People that want to hump children, do not have a problem breaking your rule about lists either.

    Bothering to have a list just hassles all the wrong people, while your bogeyman scare case will ignore it anyway.
    Yawn? Boring yourself with your continued inability to follow a rational line of thought? I am asking simple, linear questions, sorry that it tires you so.

    I have said nothing about lists, nor rules about lists, just another example of your inability to maintain an honest discussion.

    If a guy is convicted of child molestation, should he be allowed to be a preschool teacher? Yes or no?

    Also, is a child molestor a threat to kids or not? Yes or no?

    If yes, then why the appeal to emotion with all this "boogieman" bull****?

    If no, then what the ****?

    Do you advocate a State of Nature within the confines of the Constitution? **** all unless it falls within your notion of our rights?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #579
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    I don't concede a thing. You didn't provide the incident I asked for...
    Its your claim.
    Its not up to me to disprove your claim, its up to you to support it.
    I askied you to back it up, and you refuse to do so.
    You have failed to support your claim, and so your argument fails.

    Its really that simple.

    Disagree?

    Then please cite any SCotuS decision that rules that the only constitutionally valid penalties are fines and/or imprisonment, with all others violating the 5th and 8th amendments.

    False. My reasoning may be simple, but that does not make it unsound.
    No...the fact that you cannot support yout premise w/ relevant, verifiable arguments makes it unsound.

    My reasons are mostly quoted directly from the Bill of Rights, or other Constitutional Amendments, but also from documents like the Declaration, and even possibly subjective notions about the spirit of this country
    Aside from ther fact that you simply saying that a quote from the DoI or BoR means something doesnt mean ANYTHING...
    You said earlier that the DoI wasnt relevant.

    Naw, it is your, ad hominem, red herring, loaded question.
    You obviously do not know what an ad hom is.
    An, as I proved from your very on quote, its YOUR red herring.
    One you're now runnung away from.
    So, do you have the right to life liberty and property, or not?

    Right after you show me an incident where fines and punishment were found to be in violation of the eighth.
    I need do no such thing, as I have claimed no such thing.

    Sure. Do they have to do with this topic tho ?
    It directly disproves your claim that the --only-- constitutional punishment are incarceration or fines.

    This, alone, means you are wrong.


    Perhaps I discussed the topic as I would with a grown up who can see one step down the road, and this was my error.
    Now THERE'S an ad hom!!


    You -clearly- arent capable of supporting your claim.
    Get back to me when you can.

  10. #580
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Just a simple observation...
    One proven completely inaccurate by the quote I followed it with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Just a simple extension of logic.
    Nope, just a tactic where you make something up, then claim I said it.

    Its not like I wasn't ready for your strawman avalanche.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    My 4 year-old daughter is a free citizen
    A false claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is a question
    More falsehoods. If this is a question :

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    A person that commits murder and is imprisoned is still a citizen. Logic would dictate that you feel that convicted felons, while in prison, should be able to own and carry guns. This is where your logic is flawed...
    Where is the question mark ?

    I think its NOT a question, but rather, as I accurately stated before, it is your attempt to fashion a strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am asking simple, linear questions, sorry that it tires you so.
    You are making up strawmen, and trying to pin them to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I have said nothing about lists, nor rules about lists
    What do you think a sex offender registry is ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    If a guy is convicted of child molestation, should he be allowed to be a preschool teacher? Yes or no?
    I'll say no. But I won't make it a stupid ass blanket ill fitting law.

    I will leave the decision, that "no" where it belongs, in the hands of the principal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Also, is a child molestor a threat to kids or not? Yes or no?
    Yes, and would you release this danger ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    If yes, then why the appeal to emotion with all this "boogieman" bull****?
    Because you base your objections off of worst case scenarios, and that is a hallmark of YOUR emotionalization of the issue.

    I note now, that you did not address my point ONE BIT.

    I wonder why that is ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

    Perhaps that is because it is one of the NOT worst case scenarios.

Page 58 of 69 FirstFirst ... 848565758596068 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •