View Poll Results: Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

Voters
95. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    39 41.05%
  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    45 47.37%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    22 23.16%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    11 11.58%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    1 1.05%
  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    16 16.84%
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Thread: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

  1. #561
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    The fact that we currently punish citizens after release does not justify itself.
    This is only viable if the only legitimate consequence of comitting a crime is imprisonment. So long as due proces is followed, a criminal can have any number of his rights taken away, before during or after any imprisonment.

    "Doing his time" means more than the time he is in prison.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Minimum background checks...
    Do you know what prior restraint is?
    Background checks fall under its broader definition.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is only viable if the only legitimate consequence of comitting a crime is imprisonment.
    It is. Ya got fines, ya got imprisonment. Anything else is cruel and unusual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So long as due proces is followed, a criminal can have any number of his rights taken away, before during or after any imprisonment.
    I disagree, and as I stated previously, if you can lose em, they are priveleges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Doing his time" means more than the time he is in prison.
    Appeal to tradition. Just because we have been doing it wrong is no good reason to continue doing it wrong.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    It is. Ya got fines, ya got imprisonment. Anything else is cruel and unusual.
    Show that to be true, that punishment other than fines/imprisonment violate the 8th amendment.

    I disagree, and as I stated previously, if you can lose em, they are priveleges.
    So, your right to life is a privelege?
    You can disagree all you want, but the fact remains that the the 5th amendment -specifically- states that the -right- to life liberty and property may be deprived so long as due process is given.

    Appeal to tradition. Just because we have been doing it wrong is no good reason to continue doing it wrong.
    You'll have to address the responses, above, to show that we have been doing it wrong.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 09-23-09 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Show that to be true, that punishment other than fines/imprisonment violate the 8th amendment.
    I already did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    It is. Ya got fines, ya got imprisonment. Anything else is cruel and unusual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, your right to life is a privelege?
    "Right to Life" is in the Declaration of Independance, not the Constitution, and thus carries no legal weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You can disagree all you want, but the fact remains that the the 5th amendment -speficially- states that the -right- to life liberty and property may be deprived so long as due process is given.
    Incorrect. The word "right" does not appear in the fifth amendment. It also pretty much limits one to fines and imprisonment, as I stated above, and as the Eighth Amendment reinforces, prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You'll have to address the responses, above, to show that we have been doing it wrong.
    I already have shown it. Releasing a citizen with a neutered set of rights is inconsistant with our sytem of law. Citizens have the right to self defense, and the right to use weapons to succeed in that end. Suffrage ? To borrow your tactic of quoting the Declaration, , No Taxation without Representation !! Sex offender crap ? OBVIOUS violation of the fifth and the fourteenth.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    I already did.
    Hate to break it to you, but you making a statement does not qualify as showing that your statement is true. You'll have to do far better than that.

    "Right to Life" is in the Declaration of Independance, not the Constitution, and thus carries no legal weight.
    Incorrect. The word "right" does not appear in the fifth amendment.
    So, again, you have no right to life, liberty or property?

    It also pretty much limits one to fines and imprisonment as I stated above, and as the Eighth Amendment reinforces, prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment.
    Explain then the clause "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property...", when any and all of these things may be something other than fines or imprisonment?

    I already have shown it. Releasing a citizen with a neutered set of rights is inconsistant with our sytem of law.
    You have STATED this, you have not SHOWN this.

    Citizens have the right to self defense, and the right to use weapons to succeed in that end... sufferage...
    These are liberties. The government, may, according to the 5th amendment, deprive criminals of their liberties, so long as due process is followed.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but you making a statement does not qualify as showing that your statement is true. You'll have to do far better than that.
    No, I don't. Fines or imprisonment (or execution) are delineated by the fifth, and the Eighth pretty much prohibits anything else. Its the constitution man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, again, you have no right to life, liberty or property?
    Loaded crap, rejected on its face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Explain then the clause "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property...", when any and all of these things may be something other than fines or imprisonment?
    Um, no, they're not. Fines = property, Imprisonment = Liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You have STATED this, you have not SHOWN this.
    Sure I did, right here where you editted :

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    I already have shown it. Releasing a citizen with a neutered set of rights is inconsistant with our sytem of law. Citizens have the right to self defense, and the right to use weapons to succeed in that end. Suffrage ? To borrow your tactic of quoting the Declaration, , No Taxation without Representation !! Sex offender crap ? OBVIOUS violation of the fifth and the fourteenth.
    Last edited by Voidwar; 09-23-09 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    No, I don't. Fines or imprisonement (or execution) are delineated by the fifth and the Eighth pretty much prohibits anything else. Its the constitution man.
    Please cite any SCotuS decision that rules that the only constitutionally valid penalties are fines and/or imprisonment, with all others violating the 5th and 8th amendments.

    Loaded crap, rejected on its face.
    I asked you a question, pursunt to -your- statement.
    So, again: you have no right to life, liberty or property?

    Um, no, they're not. Fines = property, Imprisonment = Liberty.
    You have many liberties other than freedom from incarceration, and there are any number of other "properties" that can be taken from you as punishemnt for a crime other than simple money.
    And...what about "life"?

    Sure I did, right here where you editted
    I addessed this; YOU did not address my response to that effect:

    These are liberties. The government, may, according to the 5th amendment, deprive criminals of their liberties, so long as due process is followed.

    And so, again:
    You have STATED this, you have not SHOWN this
    Hate to break it to you, but you making a statement does not qualify as showing that your statement is true.

  9. #569
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Please cite any SCotuS decision that rules that the only constitutionally valid penalties are fines and/or imprisonment, with all others violating the 5th and 8th amendments.
    NO. You go do your own homework. See if you can find an incidence of fines or imprisonment being found in violation of the 8th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I asked you a question, pursunt to -your- statement.
    So, again: you have no right to life, liberty or property?
    Whatever you say Goobie. Its a red herring. Do you think the state has the right to execute a freed criminal at any arbitrary time after his release ? Note the loaded question, wallow in it yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You have many liberties other than freedom from incarceration,
    Bull. You are twisting terminology. Liberty = freedom from incarceration in this context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    and there are any number of other "properties" that can be taken from you as punishemnt for a crime other than simple money.
    Bull. Fines = property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And...what about "life"?
    To be completely accurate, I think the founders meant to leave capital punishment up to the states, with the exception of treason. I don't think the constitution was an accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    These are liberties.
    No, they are rights, and they cannot be violated after incarceration is over.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Also, lets take note of the 14th amendment, section 2:

    Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
    So, according to the 14th amendment, people who do not have the right to vote because of their having committed a crime, are not counted as those whose rights have been 'abridged'.

    This destroys any argument that depriving felons the right to vote violates the Constitution, under the 5th, 8th or otherwise.

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