View Poll Results: Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

Voters
95. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    39 41.05%
  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    45 47.37%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    22 23.16%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    11 11.58%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    1 1.05%
  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    16 16.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Only when said speech is used to cause harm or injury.
    You have a point (use) but I would argue a difference in danger to society makes firearms different than speech. It would be a stretch to ague that words have the same immediate lethal danger as a crazed, suicidal teen with an automatic weapon in a public school or shopping mall. Therefore, the firearm should be more closely regulated due to its immediate lethality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    operation of a motor vehicle falls nowhere near the outlines of the US Constitution though...
    I think a Constitutional lawyer could make a compelling argument that it is implied in it.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 07:32 AM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    You have a point (use) but I would argue a difference in danger to society makes firearms different than speech. It would be a stretch to ague that words have the same immediate lethal danger as a crazed, suicidal teen with an automatic weapon in a public school or shopping mall. Therefore, the firearm should be more closely regulated due to its immediate lethality.
    Completely agree. I think that fire arms are already more closely regulated though. Nobody has to have a permit to stand on a street corner and make a speech.


    I think a Constitutional lawyer could make an impelling argument that it is implied in it.
    If there was money in it, I am sure one would certainly try too!
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    I voted for some regulations because I don't have a problem with ensuring that people who have shown that they pose a likely threat to the health and lives of others, either through past criminal actions or psychological evaluations, should not have guns. And I'm sure I may upset some, but I can also see a need for not allowing just anyone to run around with an automatic weapon (although I don't have a problem with people owning them for collections, I just don't think there is an actual legitimate reason for someone to be walking around with one in public). I wouldn't go too much further than these. Granted I see the things like chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons for personal use being banned as a no-brainer. And anything that isn't actually available on the market yet would have to be judged on case-by-case bases in the future.

    I will bring up that I think the bill HR 45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act stinks. Two of my main concerns with it, although there are others, is the provision that the Attorney General can change the qualifications to getting and keeping a license at any time and the provision that they can come in and inspect where firearms are stored. Even with the qualifier, this sounds shady.

    ^(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--
    any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;

    ^In order to ascertain compliance with this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the regulations and orders issued under this Act, the Attorney General may, during regular business hours, enter any place in which firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held, for distribution in commerce, and inspect those areas where the products are so manufactured, stored, or held.

    Of course, the fee is another complaint. Especially since the license needs to be periodically renewed. This would be crappy to have to pay a periodic fee for a right granted in the Bill of Rights.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I voted for some regulations because I don't have a problem with ensuring that people who have shown that they pose a likely threat to the health and lives of others, either through past criminal actions or psychological evaluations, should not have guns. And I'm sure I may upset some, but I can also see a need for not allowing just anyone to run around with an automatic weapon (although I don't have a problem with people owning them for collections, I just don't think there is an actual legitimate reason for someone to be walking around with one in public).
    If I understand what you are saying, you & I are pretty much i n agreement in that we both evidently believe a "Usefulness to society" test is legitimate & that if any dangerous device has little to no use to society in general, that is can & should be strictly regulated.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I wouldn't go too much further than these. Granted I see the things like chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons for personal use being banned as a no-brainer. And anything that isn't actually available on the market yet would have to be judged on case-by-case bases in the future.
    It amazes me how some people won't even concede the danger of those things though???..What possible societal benefit could be derived from individuals owning biological weapons??? (yet some people respond by just quoting the text of the 2nd Amandment......Congress shall make no law...etc...as if the founding fathers prohibited intelligent thought to be allowed after they were gone......ridiculous!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I will bring up that I think the bill HR 45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act stinks. Two of my main concerns with it, although there are others, is the provision that the Attorney General can change the qualifications to getting and keeping a license at any time and the provision that they can come in and inspect where firearms are stored. Even with the qualifier, this sounds shady.
    I'm not familiar enough with that bill to have an opinion either way.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 08:14 AM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    If I understand what you are saying, you & I are pretty much i n agreement in that we both evidently believe a "Usefulness to society" test is legitimate & that if any dangerous device has little to no use to society in general, that is can & should be strictly regulated.
    That's brilliant. Base our rights on what is useful to society. Society above the individual, the collective first sort of thinking. That's probably the worst place to put ruling authority of our rights into. Turns out like all the other commie countries. I mean, that was all for the society too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    It amazes me how some people won't even concede the danger of those things though???..What possible societal benefit could be derived from individuals owning biological weapons??? (yet some people respond by just quoting the text of the 2nd Amandment......Congress shall make no law...etc...as if the founding fathers prohibited intelligent thought to be allowed after they were gone......ridiculous!!)
    It amazes me how some people don't understand the responsibilities and consequences of freedom and liberty. Of course it's dangerous, it's free. Free is dangerous, it's never safe because you are allowing the free exercise of one's rights. Given enough people and time someone will take advantage of it. Free is inherently dangerous. Always has been, always will be. You either accept the consequences and burdens of freedom or you live as a slave; those are the choices. You can probably live very comfortably as a slave, but it's not free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I'm not familiar enough with that bill to have an opinion either way.
    The bill is a horrible commie law aimed at removing guns as a right. Once it's about permits and inspections; it's no longer a right. But if y'all are ok with allowing the government to legislate our rights away; well then don't come crying when it all blows up in your face. Cause it will.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    In our modern society, with the lethality of the devices we can produce (& thus the danger they present to us as a group), I think it simply unreasonable to have no rules governing the individual's ....access to..... .use of ..... & location of use in regards to these devices....whether they be motor vehicles, explosive devices or firearms.
    Not that you'll actually try to answer his but...
    Who, exactly, argues for "no rules"?

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Well...I guess it boils down to this:
    If you agree that the state has a right to regulate the operation of motor vehicles (working brakes, lights required, etc) as a safety concession for us all, then it would be inconsistent to argue the state (Us) doesn't have that same right when it comes to firearms.
    Absolutely incorrect.
    Driving on public roads is a privilege.
    Keeping and bearing arms is a right.
    Arguing that because the state may regulate the former it may then regulate the latter in a similar manner is non-sequitur.

    Constitutional specification of rights not withstanding. (we have a Constitutional right of free speech but that is subject to regulations as well)
    As I noted before, and as you ignored, any and all constitutional restrictions on the right to arms would necessarily parallel those on the right to free speech.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not that you'll actually try to answer his but...
    Who, exactly, argues for "no rules"?
    According to the poll....33 people right here believe that.

    (if you tell me that rule aren't the same as regulations this conversation is over....No semantic weed forest please!)
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 12:53 PM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    According to the poll....33 people right here believe that.
    I didn't task for who chose that poll response, I asked for who argues it.
    Please quote one example.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I didn't task for who chose that poll response, I asked for who argues it.
    Please quote one example.

    You want NAMES!?!?!.

    You are not a serious debater.(all you ever do is challenge people to waste their time weeding through posts & then ignore their replies....if they are dumb enough to fall for your 4th grade tricks)

    Sorry....I'm not taking your lame bait or falling for your stupid word games........Find a dumb target,. (& you wonder why people ignore you??)
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 01:01 PM.

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