View Poll Results: Are ANY government regulations of the 2nd Amendment acceptable?

Voters
95. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. It's a Constitutional Right & no regulatioins are acceptable.

    39 41.05%
  • Yes. Reasonable regulations are acceptable.

    45 47.37%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry full auto weapons.

    22 23.16%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry flame throwers.

    11 11.58%
  • A law abiding citizen should have the right to own & carry tactical nukes.

    1 1.05%
  • gun restrictions are necessary to prevent unauthorized use by nuts.

    16 16.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

  1. #501
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think that exact opposite... since people came up with the Rights, it is people that can void or change the Rights.
    Anybody who does not understand this concept needs to be seriously ignored.
    Bodh, I take a slightly different tack.

    I believe the right to self-defense is inherent in all living beings.

    Everything that lives and has a brain, has some will to survive and continue living, and will fight or flee attempts to take its life.

    So it is with people. Virtually every human being will fight or flee someone attempting to kill him.

    If we believe murder (unjust homicide) is wrong, then it follows that the inborn desire to live, the instinctive willingness to fight against being murdered, must be right. Therefore I consider self-defense to be a natural right of all humanity, not granted by people or government but inborn.

    Given that disarming criminals simply isn't a practical solution (ie it doesn't work), it follows that honest citizens must be allowed the necessary tools to defend themselves against criminals. Firearms are the most effective tools.

    If self-defense is a natural right, then having the means to engage in effective self-defense against the common threat of the armed criminal is also a natural right.

    The problem with this poll and question from the very beginning is, who defines what constitutes "reasonable regulations"?


    Infringing on a natural right, with prior-restraint laws, is wrong. Only those items that have no use to individual self-defense or service in the unorganized militia (which is all the people) can be rightfully restricted; or those individuals who have demonstrated their unfitness due to committing violent crime, or addiction to substances that severely impair judgement, or potentially dangerous insanity/incapacity.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Bodh, I take a slightly different tack.

    I believe the right to self-defense is inherent in all living beings.

    Everything that lives and has a brain, has some will to survive and continue living, and will fight or flee attempts to take its life.

    So it is with people. Virtually every human being will fight or flee someone attempting to kill him.

    If we believe murder (unjust homicide) is wrong, then it follows that the inborn desire to live, the instinctive willingness to fight against being murdered, must be right. Therefore I consider self-defense to be a natural right of all humanity, not granted by people or government but inborn.

    Given that disarming criminals simply isn't a practical solution (ie it doesn't work), it follows that honest citizens must be allowed the necessary tools to defend themselves against criminals. Firearms are the most effective tools.

    If self-defense is a natural right, then having the means to engage in effective self-defense against the common threat of the armed criminal is also a natural right.

    The problem with this poll and question from the very beginning is, who defines what constitutes "reasonable regulations"?


    Infringing on a natural right, with prior-restraint laws, is wrong. Only those items that have no use to individual self-defense or service in the unorganized militia (which is all the people) can be rightfully restricted; or those individuals who have demonstrated their unfitness due to committing violent crime, or addiction to substances that severely impair judgement, or potentially dangerous insanity/incapacity.
    I am not sure how it is different, really... since i was simply talking about the peoples right to write laws. I agree with your entire post dead on. Everyone (except those deemed unfit i.e. criminals or insane, etc) should be allowed to, and encouraged to, own guns. Since they are all a part of the militia, they are then also better equipped to defend the nation against tyranny or invasion (an argument that so many pro-gun advocates seem to ignore for some reason *shrugs*).
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Bodh, I take a slightly different tack.

    I believe the right to self-defense is inherent in all living beings.

    Everything that lives and has a brain, has some will to survive and continue living, and will fight or flee attempts to take its life.

    So it is with people. Virtually every human being will fight or flee someone attempting to kill him.

    If we believe murder (unjust homicide) is wrong, then it follows that the inborn desire to live, the instinctive willingness to fight against being murdered, must be right. Therefore I consider self-defense to be a natural right of all humanity, not granted by people or government but inborn.

    Given that disarming criminals simply isn't a practical solution (ie it doesn't work), it follows that honest citizens must be allowed the necessary tools to defend themselves against criminals. Firearms are the most effective tools.

    If self-defense is a natural right, then having the means to engage in effective self-defense against the common threat of the armed criminal is also a natural right.

    The problem with this poll and question from the very beginning is, who defines what constitutes "reasonable regulations"?


    Infringing on a natural right, with prior-restraint laws, is wrong. Only those items that have no use to individual self-defense or service in the unorganized militia (which is all the people) can be rightfully restricted; or those individuals who have demonstrated their unfitness due to committing violent crime, or addiction to substances that severely impair judgement, or potentially dangerous insanity/incapacity.
    A few points:

    What you describe as a "Right" of self defense, I would describe as a naturally occurring self-preservation instinct in almost all living creatures on this planet. I do not consider it either a "Right' or a wrong.....It just IS.

    That being said, I also believe that all groupings of humans will, early on, band together & make some rules to ensure the preservation of their "Group" & that this instinct stems from the natural self-preservation instinct within each individual within that group.
    When you say this: "The problem with this poll and question from the very beginning is, who defines what constitutes "reasonable regulations"?......I don't agree that the statement is a "Problem" as much as it is a concession to reality. I deliberately left the definition of "Reasonable" open & undefined as I realized that this will always be the basic problem for any society to struggle with.
    Who defines reasonable therefore must be a collective, negotiated decision ultimately agreed on by the societal group itself & not one imposed by an outside authority, for it to work.

    In our modern society, with the lethality of the devices we can produce (& thus the danger they present to us as a group), I think it simply unreasonable to have no rules governing the individual's ....access to..... .use of ..... & location of use in regards to these devices....whether they be motor vehicles, explosive devices or firearms.
    Last edited by Devil505; 09-21-09 at 06:43 AM.

  4. #504
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am not sure how it is different, really... since i was simply talking about the peoples right to write laws. I agree with your entire post dead on. Everyone (except those deemed unfit i.e. criminals or insane, etc) should be allowed to, and encouraged to, own guns. Since they are all a part of the militia, they are then also better equipped to defend the nation against tyranny or invasion (an argument that so many pro-gun advocates seem to ignore for some reason *shrugs*).
    An excellent point. It is attributed to Gen Yamamoto (Japan, ww2) that he advised the Japanese High Command against attempting to invade mainland USA because "there would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass".

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    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #505
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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    A few points:

    What you describe as a "Right" of self defense, I would describe as a naturally occurring self-preservation instinct in almost all living creatures on this planet. I do not consider it either a "Right' or a wrong.....It just IS.
    ...and that is what "a right" IS:

    –noun
    18. a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral: You have a right to say what you please.

    Rights Definition | Definition of Rights at Dictionary.com

    ...you have the right to defend yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    An excellent point. It is attributed to Gen Yamamoto (Japan, ww2) that he advised the Japanese High Command against attempting to invade mainland USA because "there would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass".
    ...and right he was. I lived in Southern Cal and in Huntington Beach there (until recently) were gun bunkers built that housed guns to repel a potential Japanese invasion. Crazy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    An excellent point. It is attributed to Gen Yamamoto (Japan, ww2) that he advised the Japanese High Command against attempting to invade mainland USA because "there would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass".
    Bingo.

    And gun-controled socialist hellholes are just asking to be invaded every quarter century or so...





    Last edited by Alex Libman; 09-21-09 at 06:53 AM.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
    Bingo.

    And gun-controled socialist hellholes are just asking to be invaded every quarter century or so...

    I guess that we should kiss San Francisco goodbye then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Well...I guess it boils down to this:
    If you agree that the state has a right to regulate the operation of motor vehicles (working brakes, lights required, etc) as a safety concession for us all, then it would be inconsistent to argue the state (Us) doesn't have that same right when it comes to firearms.....Constitutional specification of rights not withstanding. (we have a Constitutional right of free speech but that is subject to regulations as well)

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    Re: Should There Be Any Regulations To 2nd Amnendment Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Well...I guess it boils down to this:
    If you agree that the state has a right to regulate the operation of motor vehicles (working brakes, lights required, etc) as a safety concession for us all, then it would be inconsistent to argue the state (Us) doesn't have that same right when it comes to firearms.....Constitutional specification of rights not withstanding. (we have a Constitutional right of free speech but that is subject to regulations as well)
    Only when said speech is used to cause harm or injury. That is the same with the regulations regarding fire arms. That is what is consistent. operation of a motor vehicle falls nowhere near the outlines of the US Constitution though...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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