View Poll Results: Is Big Government the answer to America's problems??

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  • Yes

    15 23.81%
  • No

    10 15.87%
  • Hell No!!!

    38 60.32%
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Thread: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

  1. #41
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    This position is the antitheses of what America and Americans have always believed. Personal freedom and Liberty! if I wanted to drive around in what is essentially a tank, then who's to say I cannot??
    The 2nd amendment does not cover armored fighting vehicles at all because driving in each state is a privilege and not a right. If the tank was fully armed it falls outside the 2nd amendment as it again only covers personal firearms and not tanks etc. I mean it can be debated, but it is generally accepted as such.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-22-09 at 12:40 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    This position is the antitheses of what America and Americans have always believed. Personal freedom and Liberty! if I wanted to drive around in what is essentially a tank, then who's to say I cannot??
    It's up to you. I don't advocate your decision to drive the "tank" nor do I advocate banning a "tank". What I do advocate is raising the taxes on said "tank" to level the personal costs of the vehicle with the social costs of driving the vehicle (to everybody else). If a large vehicle or "tank" smashes into a hatchback and kills a family a four, what is account for besides bad driving? Nobody weighs the cost that maybe if the large vehicle was much smaller, the family might have survived the crash. Also, maybe the driver of the jeep/hummer/tank/whatever wouldn't have flown through the windshield and received a head injury. With leveling the social and private costs, there are incentives to drive in a car that isn't socially damaging.

    EDIT: We are talking about a hypothetical tank, right?
    Last edited by Sanitas; 08-22-09 at 12:28 AM.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  3. #43
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I agree that the government has a key role in many things. The problem that I see is the amount of resources it takes our federal government to achieve such things. This is one reason I am so against the federal government. Local government can serve the same function but at a much smaller and better organized scale. On smaller scales you are more likely to achieve the same goals with less corruption and bureaucracy not to mention those most affected by the role of the government have more input into how it is run.
    Your a man after my own heart. It is known as the principle of subsidiarity; or the idea that the lowest level of organisations possible should be responsible for a function. It is something our modern gov'ts have completely lost sight of. Hence you get the Obama healthcare plan which has no respect for it whatsoever.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #44
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    The government has legitimate functions. but the government has expanded far beyond the scope of reason. It takes about a third of the nation's GDP and half of our incomes, mostly to squander it on bridges to nowhere, entitlements that no one is actually entitled to, and pretending that it's my mother. The government should keep us from injuring each other and not much else.
    Well said, I'm really really sick of the government pretending it's my mother.

  5. #45
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Don't forget us Distributists and agrarians. America was pretty much distributive when it was founded and Jefferson's ideals were very much agrarian-distributist as well. Obviously we're not a million miles away from the solution you talk about above and I certainly agree it could greatly reduce the need for gov't. I totally agree that corporate-capitalism requires a lot of gov't intervention to maintain it. It always has.
    If you advocate reversion to agrarian organization, perhaps. But no replication of exchange markets of independent artisans and traders (with minimal wage labor), would be feasible in industrialized society, I'd say. But I don't advocate republican market socialism as an ultimate end at any rate; in a politically stable Western country, it is and must be a transitional phase.

  6. #46
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    If you advocate reversion to agrarian organization, perhaps.
    Well like most distributists and Kropotkinian anarchists I advocate a better integration of urban and rural society and a remembrance of the importance of agriculture and yeomanry in a healthy society.

    But no replication of exchange markets of independent artisans and traders (with minimal wage labor), would be feasible in industrialized society, I'd say. But I don't advocate republican market socialism as an ultimate end at any rate; in a politically stable Western country, it is and must be a transitional phase.
    I'd say it would very much be feasible. You'd have bigger firms of modified wage labour and co-operatives but there could easily be a lot bigger section represented by family and very small firms. In fact today a large section of the economy is such. Kropotkin himself wrote extensively on the possibilities of small-scale industry as have many others from Lewis Mumford to Kevin Carson. It would be a very changed economy but it is definitely possible.

    Oh and if anyone wants to object with rubbish about starvation I suggest they look into John Jeavons.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #47
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    fyi Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    The true answer is just the opposite -- LIMITED government.

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