View Poll Results: Is Big Government the answer to America's problems??

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  • Yes

    15 23.81%
  • No

    10 15.87%
  • Hell No!!!

    38 60.32%
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Thread: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

  1. #31
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Really? I think you underestimate what all the government actually does. I would point to our infrastructure again as an example. I would point to the first gulf war. I would point to vast steps forward on gay marriage. I would point to Afghanistan, which is hard going, but we are at least doing better than the Soviets did there.
    I wouldn't consider the government's actions in most of those to be very good. While the first gulf war was defensible under UN jurisdiction and we left when we were supposed to, that never set well with the federal government and they spent a lot of time looking for reasons to get back in there. Walking into Afghanistan and then Iraq again were two massive mistakes, both of which we can directly trace to our support of these regimes in the first place. We put them in power, we supplied them, we ended up having to spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives to get them out again. And now... they're coming back, at least in Afghanistan.

    Gay marriage? Vast steps forward? Where? Certainly not the federal government, which passed DOMA. The only advances have come from state and local governments, which would have meant something had Clinton not guaranteed that the other states don't have to recognize them.

    I'm just not seeing anything really great about the federal government in the past 20 years from either side.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #32
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I voted yes, for now. Just as government programs helped move the country out of the great depression, I think the government is working to move this economy now. After the economy is back on it's feet, the government should begin to recede like an ocean tide.
    The government didn't help us in the great depression, if anything, government programs extended the effects of the great depression. What saved us was WWII and the fact that we spent years being arms dealers to the world. Wars are great money-makers if done right and our technological superiority for the next 50 years was almost entirely due to our WWII buildup and the fact that we weren't bombed back to the stone age like much of Europe. We were lucky, but we have since entirely squandered any superiority we might have had.

    Today, the government isn't solving the economic problems, Obama is just printing money and throwing it at people without having any overall plan how it's supposed to help. The first round of stimulus may have made the banking system even worse off than it was. The government is not actually solving the underlying problems that made the economy fail in the first place, they're just putting bandages over the sucking chest wound and hoping if you can't see it, it can't hurt you.

    Add to that the fact that no government program, once in place, ever goes away. The government never gets smaller, it's like a cancer that grows and grows. Give it a growth medium, it expands as far as you'll allow it, then it finds ways to sustain it's existence far beyond any reasonable usefulness.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #33
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It's the governments fault the bad lending practices where started in the first place. US government policy, by encouraging banks to lend to people with poor credit records, was a contributory factor in undermining US banks. You cannot deny it was the leading contributor.
    Clinton dismantled regulatory control over the banking industry. The government also strongly encouraged government-backed Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac to get people into homes that they were not qualified for and could not afford. Once the legal restrictions to predatory lending and flim-flam mortgages were gone, dishonest lenders took the ball and ran with it and even Bush, who was warned of the potential consequences of what was going on, didn't make any attempts to re-regulate the industry or reign in the insanity. It made the economy look good, which was all he cared about. I pointed out the dangers of the sub-prime mortgage market back at least as far as 2003, it's not like it should have come as a surprise to anyone.
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  4. #34
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    With a program for this, an entitlement for that, an allocation for the other thing I really have to throw this question out there, and I would like you folks (especially on the Left) to answer honestly.

    Does anyone really think that Governmenet, especially Big Government is the answer to America's problems?
    Government is rarely the answer. It is usually the problem.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #35
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Really? I think you underestimate what all the government actually does. I would point to our infrastructure again as an example. I would point to the first gulf war. I would point to vast steps forward on gay marriage. I would point to Afghanistan, which is hard going, but we are at least doing better than the Soviets did there.

    I can go on, but I think you get the point.
    I agree that the government has a key role in many things. The problem that I see is the amount of resources it takes our federal government to achieve such things. This is one reason I am so against the federal government. Local government can serve the same function but at a much smaller and better organized scale. On smaller scales you are more likely to achieve the same goals with less corruption and bureaucracy not to mention those most affected by the role of the government have more input into how it is run.

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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    Does anyone really think that Governmenet, especially Big Government is the answer to America's problems?
    No. But as long as the U.S. retains a capitalist economic structure, a significant government presence will be necessary. The only preferable alternative that could be implemented within Constitutional and general legislative boundaries established is some form of republican market socialism. While that would significantly reduce government presence, perhaps to minarchist functions, there are too many with an interest in the collusion between capitalism and the state for this to become feasible anytime soon.

  7. #37
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    No. I believe to stabilize our economy, we need to get a good balance between regulation and the Laissez-faire economic philosophy. Markets left to their own devices will never do great benefits for the people when there is a large gap between the social and private cost to an action. EG: driving a hummer (poses a threat to drivers in smaller cars and get's terrible fuel mileage leading to global warming, smog, etc.). In that respect, the government shouldn't be doing less. At the same time, we don't want to over regulate anything to the degree of an economic downturn. North Korea/Cuba have this type of policy. The economies of these countries are downright horrid.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  8. #38
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    No. I believe to stabilize our economy, we need to get a good balance between regulation and the Laissez-faire economic philosophy. Markets left to their own devices will never do great benefits for the people when there is a large gap between the social and private cost to an action. EG: driving a hummer (poses a threat to drivers in smaller cars and get's terrible fuel mileage leading to global warming, smog, etc.). In that respect, the government shouldn't be doing less. At the same time, we don't want to over regulate anything to the degree of an economic downturn. North Korea/Cuba have this type of policy. The economies of these countries are downright horrid.
    This position is the antitheses of what America and Americans have always believed. Personal freedom and Liberty! if I wanted to drive around in what is essentially a tank, then who's to say I cannot??


    11/8/16: A day of great relief for America

  9. #39
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I have a question for you: do you think overgeneralized jingoistic statements are the solution to Americans problem? There may be many instances where government intervention is the problem, but its not always the case.

    America's problems are best solved like any problem: you analyze what is wrong and come up with solution that best fits the specific situation. If you are more interested in satisfying your pre-existing beliefs than fixing the problem, you aren't going to do well.
    However you also must focus on the big picture as well. If you only focus on specifics you often loose a lot of perspective.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #40
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    Re: A Simple And Straightforward Question For You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No. But as long as the U.S. retains a capitalist economic structure, a significant government presence will be necessary. The only preferable alternative that could be implemented within Constitutional and general legislative boundaries established is some form of republican market socialism. While that would significantly reduce government presence, perhaps to minarchist functions, there are too many with an interest in the collusion between capitalism and the state for this to become feasible anytime soon.
    Don't forget us Distributists and agrarians. America was pretty much distributive when it was founded and Jefferson's ideals were very much agrarian-distributist as well. Obviously we're not a million miles away from the solution you talk about above and I certainly agree it could greatly reduce the need for gov't. I totally agree that corporate-capitalism requires a lot of gov't intervention to maintain it. It always has.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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