View Poll Results: Is health care a right?

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  • Yes

    30 36.59%
  • No

    52 63.41%
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Thread: Is health care in the US a right?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    I voted yes, but with a caveat. I don't think we can afford to have a broad range of services for free. I think the U.S., as a society, should provide a modicum of care for its citizens. I'm not saying that single payer is the way to go, or the current HR3200 proposal is appropriate for that matter. However, having people use emergency services and never paying a dime isn't working out well for any of us either.

    A system where people can get basic health care at low cost would be ideal, but I have no idea how to make that happen.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    At any given time, 47 million Americans do not have insurance. 25 Million Americans are under-insured. 43 Million Americans are on Medicare. Millions more are on either SCHIP or Medicaid.
    To clarify, that 47 million figure includes 10-12 million illegal immigrants and several million more who have health care available to them whether through a family member or a government program.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    If tens of millions of Americans could not afford food, would you consider it to be a crisis?

    If tens of millions of Americans could not afford housing, would you consider it to be a crisis?

    If tens of millions of Americans could not find work, would you consider it to be a crisis?
    Of course - that still wouldn't make them "rights."

    If health care is not a human right, then why can't you be denied life saving care if you cannot afford it?
    Because we as a society have decided that that's a good policy.

    I just don't think the question as to whether health care is a right or not is nearly as cut and dry as you are trying to make it.
    I really do though. I don't think there's an argument that would withstand scrutiny that healthcare (or food or shelter) are rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    No, I'd prefer that people should die of starvation and freeze to death in the snow. And no, people shouldn't have a right to a job because then they would be able to feed themselves and put a roof over their heads... and we can't have that.

    In fact, I think all three are rights. That's MY ideology. People die of starvation all over the world. The fact that food is not being provided to all the starving, dying of our world speaks for how stupid our world is. But you and others can just keep raving about taxes and the guns at your head. Cos YOUR lives are under such serious diabolical threat, lol.
    If you feel this way, then why don't you donate $100 to this:

    Feed The Children: Will you help feed a hungry child?

    Hey, I mean, **** $100, why don't you donate everything other than what you need to survive? Do you know why you won't? Because you don't actually believe what you're saying, you simply think that others should take care of this problem.

    If you actually believed that food/shelter/healthcare was a right, then you would not stand for it not being provided to others while you sit in relative luxury.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    You know, it kinda comes down to this . . .

    Real freedom is not just the freedom for people to do what you want them to do.

    If you actually believe in the idea of freedom, then you believe in the freedom of people to be selfish bast*rds if they choose to be.

    If you don't, then you don't really believe in freedom.

    It really is that simple.

    I do know that many, many, many of you have a big problem separating that statement from the idea that I'm declaring my desire to be a selfish bast*rd, but let me assure you that this problem lies with you.

    As matter of experience, though, I do find that the people who DO have this problem tend to be the ones most likely to want to force you to do what they consider "the right thing."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #74
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    No.

    Nor anywhere else.

    It may be provided by a given government to some or all of it's population, but that does not make it a "right".

    A government's place is to ensure a right, as defined in it's rules and laws, protecting it's citizens from infringement upon those rights.

    For example, if someone militarily invaded the US, our military would protect us from death and/or forced agreement with the invading entities wishes, ensuring our "right to life" and our "right to liberty".
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #75
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    No.

    Nor anywhere else.

    It may be provided by a given government to some or all of it's population, but that does not make it a "right".

    A government's place is to ensure a right, as defined in it's rules and laws, protecting it's citizens from infringement upon those rights.

    For example, if someone militarily invaded the US, our military would protect us from death and/or forced agreement with the invading entities wishes, ensuring our "right to life" and our "right to liberty".
    Best post of the thread in my opinion.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you feel this way, then why don't you donate $100 to this:

    Feed The Children: Will you help feed a hungry child?

    Hey, I mean, **** $100, why don't you donate everything other than what you need to survive? Do you know why you won't? Because you don't actually believe what you're saying, you simply think that others should take care of this problem.

    If you actually believed that food/shelter/healthcare was a right, then you would not stand for it not being provided to others while you sit in relative luxury.
    Do you mean like the way some Americans "sit in relative luxury" while begrudging having to pay taxes to improve the lives of all Americans to have access to UHC?

    That was a nice fiction from you about what I'd do or wouldn't do. Nice little run-off there. I commend your imagination, truly.

    My contributions (yes, I do make them, smarty-bum) are not enough. A tidal wave of compassion and "sensibility" (what is required to feed the starving of our world) probably won't happen any time soon. However, the way that some of you begrudge your "opportunity" to see to it that all Americans can partake of a humane and non-discriminatory system of UHC, I find insensible and mealy-mouthed. You harp about your taxes, about how you're not responsible for anyone else, and the boogey-man with the gun to your heads, lol.

    That attitude speaks volumes for your regard / lack of regard! for other humans. YOU don't want to pay for other people's health care. YOU don't want the gun to your heads. YOU don't want to pay your taxes. Big whoop. Selfishness abounds. I know it's a big ask for some of you to stretch your imaginations to see the way that UHC will HELP the lives of ALL Americans... but who gives a stuff about that... when your precious lives are at stake! from the overwhelming, diabolical, life-threatening!! assault from your government! They want to give every American access to free health care. How ****ing dare they! The nerve of them! Wanting to HELP all Americans! They should be ashamed of themselves! They want to improve the quality of life for all Americans. Oh, the hide of them! A revolt is obviously / urgently necessary to stop the quality of life for every American being improved! We must see to it that this never happens!

    So you don't want to contribute to a better "quality of life" for all Americans. America the great nation. Yeah. So great that you don't give a stuff about your fellow man / woman. Oh, the taxes and the guns at your heads! You poor, poor under-the-barrel-of-a-gun-Americans... Stuff the greater good. Serve yourselves and no one else. Great nation, indeed.

    Get over yourselves, pay your taxes to help others and stop whining.

    We've had UHC in Australia for 34 years - and I am grateful and proud of the fact I pay taxes that go toward making our health system fair and equitable for the benefit of all Australians.

  7. #77
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
    Do you mean like the way some Americans "sit in relative luxury" while begrudging having to pay taxes to improve the lives of all Americans to have access to UHC?

    That was a nice fiction from you about what I'd do or wouldn't do. Nice little run-off there. I commend your imagination, truly.

    My contributions (yes, I do make them, smarty-bum) are not enough. A tidal wave of compassion and "sensibility" (what is required to feed the starving of our world) probably won't happen any time soon. However, the way that some of you begrudge your "opportunity" to see to it that all Americans can partake of a humane and non-discriminatory system of UHC, I find insensible and mealy-mouthed. You harp about your taxes, about how you're not responsible for anyone else, and the boogey-man with the gun to your heads, lol.

    That attitude speaks volumes for your regard / lack of regard! for other humans. YOU don't want to pay for other people's health care. YOU don't want the gun to your heads. YOU don't want to pay your taxes. Big whoop. Selfishness abounds. I know it's a big ask for some of you to stretch your imaginations to see the way that UHC will HELP the lives of ALL Americans... but who gives a stuff about that... when your precious lives are at stake! from the overwhelming, diabolical, life-threatening!! assault from your government! They want to give every American access to free health care. How ****ing dare they! The nerve of them! Wanting to HELP all Americans! They should be ashamed of themselves! They want to improve the quality of life for all Americans. Oh, the hide of them! A revolt is obviously / urgently necessary to stop the quality of life for every American being improved! We must see to it that this never happens!

    So you don't want to contribute to a better "quality of life" for all Americans. America the great nation. Yeah. So great that you don't give a stuff about your fellow man / woman. Oh, the taxes and the guns at your heads! You poor, poor under-the-barrel-of-a-gun-Americans... Stuff the greater good. Serve yourselves and no one else. Great nation, indeed.

    Get over yourselves, pay your taxes to help others and stop whining.

    We've had UHC in Australia for 34 years - and I am grateful and proud of the fact I pay taxes that go toward making our health system fair and equitable for the benefit of all Australians.
    Congrats, you just missed the entire point of my post.

    If you truly believe that healthcare/food/shelter are rights, then you should do everything you can to ensure that others have those rights. There are millions of people starving to death who could be saved by you donating to help them. If you really believe that these are fundamental human rights, then you have a moral obligation to donate everything beyond what you need to live in order to help these people.

    If you're not willing to do that, then you're just telling yourself you give a **** because you want to make yourself feel better about your refusal to give up your nice life.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    I wasn't aware that rights were dependent on costs.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    I wasn't aware that rights were dependent on costs.
    You mean like, we have a Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that all citizens must have access to guns for free? That makes sense....

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    Re: Is health care in the US a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You mean like, we have a Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that all citizens must have access to guns for free? That makes sense....
    Pretty much.

    If you have a "right" to healthcare than that right must be backed by the Government from birth to death regardless of how much it costs.

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