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Is health care in the US a right?

Is health care a right?

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
RightinNYC said:
If you feel this way, then why don't you donate $100 to this:

Feed The Children: Will you help feed a hungry child?

Hey, I mean, **** $100, why don't you donate everything other than what you need to survive? Do you know why you won't? Because you don't actually believe what you're saying, you simply think that others should take care of this problem.

If you actually believed that food/shelter/healthcare was a right, then you would not stand for it not being provided to others while you sit in relative luxury.
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Do you mean like the way some Americans "sit in relative luxury" while begrudging having to pay taxes to improve the lives of all Americans to have access to UHC?

That was a nice fiction from you about what I'd do or wouldn't do. Nice little run-off there. I commend your imagination, truly.

My contributions (yes, I do make them, smarty-bum) are not enough. A tidal wave of compassion and "sensibility" (what is required to feed the starving of our world) probably won't happen any time soon. However, the way that some of you begrudge your "opportunity" to see to it that all Americans can partake of a humane and non-discriminatory system of UHC, I find insensible and mealy-mouthed. You harp about your taxes, about how you're not responsible for anyone else, and the boogey-man with the gun to your heads, lol.

That attitude speaks volumes for your regard / lack of regard! for other humans. YOU don't want to pay for other people's health care. YOU don't want the gun to your heads. YOU don't want to pay your taxes. Big whoop. Selfishness abounds. I know it's a big ask for some of you to stretch your imaginations to see the way that UHC will HELP the lives of ALL Americans... but who gives a stuff about that... when your precious lives are at stake! from the overwhelming, diabolical, life-threatening!! assault from your government! They want to give every American access to free health care. How ****ing dare they! The nerve of them! Wanting to HELP all Americans! They should be ashamed of themselves! They want to improve the quality of life for all Americans. Oh, the hide of them! A revolt is obviously / urgently necessary to stop the quality of life for every American being improved! We must see to it that this never happens!

So you don't want to contribute to a better "quality of life" for all Americans. America the great nation. Yeah. So great that you don't give a stuff about your fellow man / woman. Oh, the taxes and the guns at your heads! You poor, poor under-the-barrel-of-a-gun-Americans... Stuff the greater good. Serve yourselves and no one else. Great nation, indeed.

Get over yourselves, pay your taxes to help others and stop whining.

We've had UHC in Australia for 34 years - and I am grateful and proud of the fact I pay taxes that go toward making our health system fair and equitable for the benefit of all Australians.
 
Gwendoline said:
Do you mean like the way some Americans "sit in relative luxury" while begrudging having to pay taxes to improve the lives of all Americans to have access to UHC?

That was a nice fiction from you about what I'd do or wouldn't do. Nice little run-off there. I commend your imagination, truly.

My contributions (yes, I do make them, smarty-bum) are not enough. A tidal wave of compassion and "sensibility" (what is required to feed the starving of our world) probably won't happen any time soon. However, the way that some of you begrudge your "opportunity" to see to it that all Americans can partake of a humane and non-discriminatory system of UHC, I find insensible and mealy-mouthed. You harp about your taxes, about how you're not responsible for anyone else, and the boogey-man with the gun to your heads, lol.

That attitude speaks volumes for your regard / lack of regard! for other humans. YOU don't want to pay for other people's health care. YOU don't want the gun to your heads. YOU don't want to pay your taxes. Big whoop. Selfishness abounds. I know it's a big ask for some of you to stretch your imaginations to see the way that UHC will HELP the lives of ALL Americans... but who gives a stuff about that... when your precious lives are at stake! from the overwhelming, diabolical, life-threatening!! assault from your government! They want to give every American access to free health care. How ****ing dare they! The nerve of them! Wanting to HELP all Americans! They should be ashamed of themselves! They want to improve the quality of life for all Americans. Oh, the hide of them! A revolt is obviously / urgently necessary to stop the quality of life for every American being improved! We must see to it that this never happens!

So you don't want to contribute to a better "quality of life" for all Americans. America the great nation. Yeah. So great that you don't give a stuff about your fellow man / woman. Oh, the taxes and the guns at your heads! You poor, poor under-the-barrel-of-a-gun-Americans... Stuff the greater good. Serve yourselves and no one else. Great nation, indeed.

Get over yourselves, pay your taxes to help others and stop whining.

We've had UHC in Australia for 34 years - and I am grateful and proud of the fact I pay taxes that go toward making our health system fair and equitable for the benefit of all Australians.
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Congrats, you just missed the entire point of my post.

If you truly believe that healthcare/food/shelter are rights, then you should do everything you can to ensure that others have those rights. There are millions of people starving to death who could be saved by you donating to help them. If you really believe that these are fundamental human rights, then you have a moral obligation to donate everything beyond what you need to live in order to help these people.

If you're not willing to do that, then you're just telling yourself you give a **** because you want to make yourself feel better about your refusal to give up your nice life.
 
The silenced majority said:
I wasn't aware that rights were dependent on costs.
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You mean like, we have a Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that all citizens must have access to guns for free? That makes sense....
 
Dav said:
You mean like, we have a Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that all citizens must have access to guns for free? That makes sense....
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Pretty much.

If you have a "right" to healthcare than that right must be backed by the Government from birth to death regardless of how much it costs.
 
The silenced majority said:
Pretty much.

If you have a "right" to healthcare than that right must be backed by the Government from birth to death regardless of how much it costs.
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I view the purpose of government in regards to rights as one of protection.

The government's place is to protect it's citizens from infringment on their rights, as outlined by the governing laws of the land, by using the military and law enforcement aspects of government.
 
The Mark said:
I view the purpose of government in regards to rights as one of protection.

The government's place is to protect it's citizens from infringment on their rights, as outlined by the governing laws of the land, by using the military and law enforcement aspects of government.
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The first 8 amendments in the bill of rights outline what the Government can't do to you. The 9th allows for "rights" of the people to entail more than what's written in the Constitution and the 10th limits the powers of the federal Government to only what their legitimate function is as per the Constitution.

The 10th amendment is so important right now, and would be much stronger if we the people did away with the 17th amendment (the amendment that destroyed the Senate and put lobbyists on steroids)
 
The silenced majority said:
The first 8 amendments in the bill of rights outline what the Government can't do to you. The 9th allows for "rights" of the people to entail more than what's written in the Constitution and the 10th limits the powers of the federal Government to only what their legitimate function is as per the Constitution.

The 10th amendment is so important right now, and would be much stronger if we the people did away with the 17th amendment (the amendment that destroyed the Senate and put lobbyists on steroids)
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I am apparently not as well versed as you on constitutional/amendment matters.

However, your points make sense.
 
The Mark said:
I am apparently not as well versed as you on constitutional/amendment matters.

However, your points make sense.
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I'm a grasshopper. I re-read it and thought it to be poorly worded myself. The first 8 amendments limit the power of the Government and others.
 
Not if other people are forced to provide it for you.

Of course, you do have a right to provide (pay for) it for yourself.
 
Gwendoline said:
Health care IS a right here in Australia. Do not turn it (UHC) into the "monster". It is a humane and sensible thing to embrace.
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It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors.
All that is changing & I think HC will be finally recognized as the right that it should always have been.
 
I don't believe that Health Care is a right. BUT I do believe that the government has an interest in keeping its citizens healthy. After all with no citizens you would not have a government to begin with.
 
Devil505 said:
It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors.
All that is changing & I think HC will be finally recognized as the right that it should always have been.
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It is not a right. It has been shown so many times now to repeat it would be redundant.

Now post some proof (something you have yet to do, at all, anyplace) because your opinion is pretty worthless just like the rest of us. This is why we post evidence to support our positions.
 
Blackdog said:
It is not a right. It has been shown so many times now to repeat it would be redundant.

Now post some proof (something you have yet to do, at all, anyplace) because your opinion is pretty worthless just like the rest of us. This is why we post evidence to support our positions.
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Read my words again. (& I post links to prove many facts, when I claim them....look back through my posts)
 
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Devil505 said:
Read my words again. (& I post links to prove many facts, when I claim them....look back through my posts)
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"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

So you are admitting you have no proof and just made this statement of fact up?
 
It may not be a "right", but we should not have people lose their property paying for major illnesses and serious accidents that are not in any way their fault.

I read somewhere that the "pursuit of happiness" is a rewrite, that the original term was "property". Since most of the early settlers came from countries where they could not own property, it makes sense. Their happiness depended on owning property.

Even under bankruptcy rules, most who file get to keep their house and car.

Not sure where the Obamacare plan is heading, or what it will look like in the final bill, but it bugs me that so many lies are being told about it.
 
UtahBill said:
It may not be a "right", but we should not have people lose their property paying for major illnesses and serious accidents that are not in any way their fault.
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I agree, but the bill as it stands is unacceptable.

UtahBill said:
I read somewhere that the "pursuit of happiness" is a rewrite, that the original term was "property". Since most of the early settlers came from countries where they could not own property, it makes sense. Their happiness depended on owning property.
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Property they must get for themselves, nothing is supposed to be free ride.

UtahBill said:
Even under bankruptcy rules, most who file get to keep their house and car.
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Yes?

UtahBill said:
Not sure where the Obamacare plan is heading, or what it will look like in the final bill, but it bugs me that so many lies are being told about it.
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I am just as disturbed by the truths being told about it. It's not like the Obama administration made any real effort to tell anything about it until it was to late. Stupid move on the part of the administration.
 
Blackdog said:
"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

So you are admitting you have no proof and just made this statement of fact up?
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Oh man!.....You really need to lighten up every once in a while.:)

(your blood pressure must be constantly off the scale!....I suggest you step away from the computer & go for a nice jog)

To answer your above post:
We've been through this b4....... I need to provide proof that I believe HC should be a right in this country?

OK.......(Right hand on a stack of bibles......I SWEAR I believe that!!;)
 
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Devil505 said:
Oh man!.....You really need to lighten up every once in a while.:)

(your blood pressure must be constantly off the scale!....I suggest you step away from the computer & go for a nice jog)

To answer your above post:
We've been through this b4....... I need to provide proof that I believe HC should be a right in this country?

OK.......(Right hand on a stack of bibles......I SWEAR I believe that!!;)
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Thats not what I said.

You stated the part marked in red...

"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

As a fact.

So I said prove it.
 
Another thought Blackdog:

Your normal debate tactic is to demand proof of things that require no proof. That tactic is wearing thin & totally ineffective



.

Examples of what I mean from one of your posts:



Blackdog said:
I agree, but the bill as it stands is unacceptable.
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Have any proof that it is unacceptable?



Blackdog said:
Property they must get for themselves, nothing is supposed to be free ride.
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Have proof that "nothing is supposed to be free ride."??







Blackdog said:
I am just as disturbed by the truths being told about it. It's not like the Obama administration made any real effort to tell anything about it until it was to late. Stupid move on the part of the administration.
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Have proof that the Obama administration didn't make any real effort to tell anything about it until it was to late??
 
Blackdog said:
Thats not what I said.

You stated the part marked in red...

"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

As a fact.

So I said prove it.
Click to expand...

See my above post.
 
Devil505 said:
Another thought Blackdog:

Your normal debate tactic is to demand proof of things that require no proof. That tactic is wearing thin & totally ineffective

Examples of what I mean from one of your posts:

Have any proof that it is unacceptable?

Have proof that "nothing is supposed to be free ride."??

Have proof that the Obama administration didn't make any real effort to tell anything about it until it was to late??
Click to expand...

Nice fallacy that has nothing to do with your statement or mine.

Prove it or admit it is just your opinion and move on.

You stated the part marked in red...

"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

As a fact.

So I said prove it.
 
Blackdog said:
So I said prove it.
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Yes...Yes....I know what you said...."Prove It." (which is your standard response to any post)

Saying "Prove it" is an extremely simple, defensive tactic to buy time & try to put your opponent on the defensive. My sincere & un-mocking criticism is that you use that tactic too much, instead of just making your case.
 
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Devil505 said:
Yes...Yes....I know what you said...."Prove It." (which is your standard response to any post)
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More fallacy.

You made a statement of fact. It is not. Now either prove it is or admit your error and move on.

Devil505 said:
Saying "Prove it" is an extremely simple, defensive tactic to buy time & try to put your opponent on the defensive.
Click to expand...

Saying prove it means you made a claim and must now back it up.

Devil505 said:
My sincere & un-mocking criticism is that you use that tactic too much, instead of just making your case
Click to expand...

My sincere & un-mocking criticism is you need to post evidence or stop making baseless partisan claims.

You stated the part marked in red...

"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

As a fact.

So I said prove it.
 
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Blackdog said:
More fallacy.

You made a statement of fact. It is not. Now either prove it is or admit your error and move on.

You stated the part marked in red...

"It should be here & would be if some greedy people didn't make lots of money from the misery of their neighbors." - Devil505

As a fact.

So I said prove it.
Click to expand...

OK...Last time I will play your little "Prove It" game:

1. my statement above was obviously meant to convey my anger at insurance companies who unarguably make great profits off the medical misfortune of others by routinely denying payment for healthcare that would cut into their profit. (I know...I know....Prove it.....right!
2. It is possible that many of the neighbors of insurance company exec's are the one they deny coverage too....Thus the "Neighbors" line.



Now....How about you proving your contentions I pointed out in post #95 above?
 
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