• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What is your religion?

What is your religion?

  • Total voters
    132
Cephus said:
How does any of that demonstrate the factual existence of any sort of divinity? What you're describing here almost entirely is the fallacy from ignorance. You don't understand it, therefore you're demanding that there be another, easier to understand explanation.

Nothing you present is, in any way, evidence that any god(s) exist.
Click to expand...

This is just a poll, after all. It's not in the religion forum for debate.
 
Goshin said:
Do you talk like that to religious people face to face in the real world? I don't mean the random zealot on the street, I mean the nice lady you work with who serves food to the homeless at the Presbyterian soup kitchen, the nice guy across the street who happens to be Methodist and works with his church's teen outreach down in the 'hood, the friendly receptionist at that office who wears a cross and goes to Mass every Sunday. When one of them says "God bless you" do you tell them "I don't need the blessings of your imaginary man in the sky"?
Click to expand...

Depending on how they say it, perhaps. Unfortunately, people have a certain expectation that religion gets special treatment just because it's a culturally-accepted delusion. Theists get to beat non-theists over the head with their religion left and right, but the second that non-theists tell them to knock it off, the theists scream discrimination. Maybe if theists would keep their beliefs to themselves and not try to force them on everyone, nobody would ever feel like responding in a non-generous manner.

If I went out of my way to tell DP atheists they're going to hell for rejecting God, with the same frequency that DP atheists call my beliefs nonsense or use belittling phrases like you used, I'd be viewed as a rude, aggressive, hostile zealot.
Click to expand...

Actually, atheists get that kind of thing constantly and if you point out how rude it is, they shrug their shoulders and say they're trying to "save" you. But again... say anything against religion and they scream bloody murder. Whether you like it or not, no one has any obligation to *****foot around your religious beliefs and make you feel good about them. They don't warrant special consideration or special treatment. Just because you believe it doesn't mean I have to, nor that I have to respect the fact that you do. By the same token that I'd consider an adult believing in Santa Claus to be illogical and irrational, I consider anyone who believes in an invisible man in the sky to be illogical and irrational. The number of people who claim to believe such things doesn't change that. Sorry if that offends you.
 
Cephus said:
Depending on how they say it, perhaps. Unfortunately, people have a certain expectation that religion gets special treatment just because it's a culturally-accepted delusion. Theists get to beat non-theists over the head with their religion left and right, but the second that non-theists tell them to knock it off, the theists scream discrimination. Maybe if theists would keep their beliefs to themselves and not try to force them on everyone, nobody would ever feel like responding in a non-generous manner.
Click to expand...

You're the victim? I don't think that I've ever called you delusional, maybe I missed it.
 
phattonez said:
You're the victim? I don't think that I've ever called you delusional, maybe I missed it.
Click to expand...

Just because you don't personally do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Besides, I never called you personally delusional, never said a thing about you personally, you simply took what I said as a general statement personally.

Maybe that's the problem.
 
Cephus said:
Unfortunately, people have a certain expectation that religion gets special treatment just because it's a culturally-accepted delusion.
Click to expand...

Cephus said:
Just because you don't personally do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Besides, I never called you personally delusional, never said a thing about you personally, you simply took what I said as a general statement personally.

Maybe that's the problem.
Click to expand...

People who you consider to hold delusional beliefs aren't delusional? I'd really like to see you weasel your way out of this one.
 
This is the second thread without a proper alternative to the Mainstream cu... I mean religions. :3oops:. I demand the next Poll provide proper choices like Pagan/Shamanist.
 
OxymoronP said:
This is the second thread without a proper alternative to the Mainstream cu... I mean religions. :3oops:. I demand the next Poll provide proper choices like Pagan/Shamanist.
Click to expand...

Whats the point, its not a proper religion.
 
OxymoronP said:
You mean it doesnt lie to its members, it doesnt require monetary contributions, and doesnt have a corrupt hierarchy? I guess your right.;)
Click to expand...

Korimyr the Rat said:
How, precisely, is it not?
Click to expand...

Actually i wanted one of you lot to snap back so i can say exactly what Oxymoron just said lol. Pagans rock next to Christians...and theres no point mentioning Islam. :lol:
 
Hook, line, and sinker. I am so ashamed.

There's plenty of good in the mainstream Abrahamic religions, though. Plenty of bad, too, but that's to be expected with memberships in the billions. Actually quite a few Abrahamic sects that I have quite a bit of respect for, for various reasons.

I just have doubts about any faith that recognizes the divine but questions the supernatural-- what is spirituality and what does it mean if you reject any claims about its effects on the material world?
 
phattonez said:
People who you consider to hold delusional beliefs aren't delusional? I'd really like to see you weasel your way out of this one.
Click to expand...

You know, it's funny. I was watching a program on the History Channel a couple of days ago called "Clash of the Gods" about ancient Greek mythology. I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in ancient mythology, it's quite well done. Anyhow, I was noticing how funny it was that when they referred to the Greek beliefs, they always called them myths, but when they switched to current Christian beliefs for a comparison, they almost invariably referred to them as "beliefs". It's like you can call ancient Greeks a bunch of primitive buffoons because they're not around to defend themselves, but when you have modern-day theists of any stripe, Christian or no, who believe basically the same thing, you're expected to pretend that their beliefs, which are functionally no different than those of ancient man, are somehow more credible.

Someone, please explain that to me, I just don't get it.
 
You're not answering the question. Don't you believe that people who hold delusional beliefs delusional? So aren't you calling all people who believe in any kind of religion here delusional?
 
phattonez said:
You're not answering the question. Don't you believe that people who hold delusional beliefs delusional? So aren't you calling all people who believe in any kind of religion here delusional?
Click to expand...

delusional beliefs like time? since it really doesnt exist in a physical form. You cant touch it, you cant see it, the way your exprience it varies. That kind of delusion?
 
Christian Universalist with Unitarian Universalist leanings. Might be easier just to describe myself a Unitarian Universalist since I don't believe in biblical inerrancy.
 
Last edited:
phattonez said:
You're not answering the question. Don't you believe that people who hold delusional beliefs delusional? So aren't you calling all people who believe in any kind of religion here delusional?
Click to expand...

In regard to those specific beliefs, certainly. That doesn't mean they are entirely delusional, people have an amazing ability to compartmentalize. Take Francis Collins for example, former head of the Human Genome Project and proposed head of the National Institute of Health. His scientific credentials are above reproach, his commitment to rationality and logic and the scientific method are unquestionable, yet he's also an evangelical Christian. Somehow, and frankly I don't understand how, he can keep those two sides of his life separate. On the science side, he's unquestionably rational. On the religious side, he certainly isn't. Yet he manages to keep both in check.

Would I call Francis Collins delusional? For a certain part of his life, absolutely. Do I suspect he'd get upset about it? Almost certainly not.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Hook, line, and sinker. I am so ashamed.

There's plenty of good in the mainstream Abrahamic religions, though. Plenty of bad, too, but that's to be expected with memberships in the billions. Actually quite a few Abrahamic sects that I have quite a bit of respect for, for various reasons.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.


I just have doubts about any faith that recognizes the divine but questions the supernatural-- what is spirituality and what does it mean if you reject any claims about its effects on the material world?
Click to expand...

Korimyr, could I persuade you to expand on that point a bit? I'm not too sure exactly what you're referring to.
 
Goshin said:
Korimyr, could I persuade you to expand on that point a bit? I'm not too sure exactly what you're referring to.
Click to expand...

I find it baffling how many people can believe in the miracles of Jesus and Moses, or even the various miracles of the Catholic saints, and not believe in any other magic or give credence to any modern day miracles. I don't understand how someone can believe in angels, but not ghosts or fairies or any other kind of spirit.

In short, I can understand how a person of Christian faith can label such things as "unclean" or dangerous, but not how they can dismiss them as "superstition."
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I find it baffling how many people can believe in the miracles of Jesus and Moses, or even the various miracles of the Catholic saints, and not believe in any other magic or give credence to any modern day miracles. I don't understand how someone can believe in angels, but not ghosts or fairies or any other kind of spirit.

In short, I can understand how a person of Christian faith can label such things as "unclean" or dangerous, but not how they can dismiss them as "superstition."
Click to expand...


Gotcha, thanks.

You're aware of course, that these beliefs in various spiritual things differ greatly from one denomination to another, and from one individual to another, amongst Christians.
 
Certainly so, but I think I would be tempted to question the bona fides of a Christian that doubted the loaves and fishes or the turning of water into wine.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Certainly so, but I think I would be tempted to question the bona fides of a Christian that doubted the loaves and fishes or the turning of water into wine.
Click to expand...


As would I. Either you believe Jesus was God the Son, and able to do these things with ease... or one's "faith" as a Christian is debateable.
 
Goshin said:
As would I. Either you believe Jesus was God the Son, and able to do these things with ease... or one's "faith" as a Christian is debateable.
Click to expand...

I find that troubling, since Jesus never proclaimed himself the son of God, but simply said that he was the son of God as are all humans. In any case any spiritual belief should be based on the idea of learning and achieving rather then accepting and following. If you simply accept that your preacher or Bible gives you a program to follow then it really is too simple. I believe it is the objective of any spiritual men to ask questions, to learn, to move forward.
 
OxymoronP said:
I find that troubling, since Jesus never proclaimed himself the son of God, but simply said that he was the son of God as are all humans. .
Click to expand...


That is a common misconception, often repeated but incorrect.

Allow me to elucidate:


Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Mat 16:15 He (Jesus) saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
Click to expand...

Jhn 14:1 ¶ Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.


Jhn 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


Jhn 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?


Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.


Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?


Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Click to expand...

Seems quite clear that Jesus was proclaiming that he was the promised Messiah and Redeemer, the Christ, the Son of God. He proclaimed plainly that he was the only way to God, and whoever had seen him had seen God the Father, because they were one.

I'd say that is quite plain and clear, if one is considering this within the context of beliefs based on the bible.
 
“Seems quite clear that Jesus was proclaiming that he was the promised Messiah and Redeemer, the Christ, the Son of God. He proclaimed plainly that he was the only way to God, and whoever had seen him had seen God the Father, because they were one.

I'd say that is quite plain and clear, if one is considering this within the context of beliefs based on the bible.” – Goshin

Well said.

I would also like to add to that…

Daniel 7:13

“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.” - NASB

The name “Son of Man” is used prophetically of Jesus to refer to Himself and is used over 80 times in the New Testament. Jews of the day would not have missed the implication that Jesus was claiming to be God every time he called Himself by this name.

Matthew 26:64-65

“Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN. Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy” - NASB

The Jews of Jesus’ time understood that for Jesus to call Himself “The Son of Man” was to equate Himself with God. This is why the Jews tore their robes and accused Him of blasphemy.

Luke 22:69-71

“But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He said to them, "Yes, I am."
Then they said, "What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth." - NASB

Again, Jesus equates Himself with God and it is recognized as such by the Jewish leaders.

These are just a few examples. Jesus also calls Himself “the Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 22:13) which is a name exclusive to God alone.

There are many more but this should suffice.
 
The Baron said:
“Seems quite clear that Jesus was proclaiming that he was the promised Messiah and Redeemer, the Christ, the Son of God. He proclaimed plainly that he was the only way to God, and whoever had seen him had seen God the Father, because they were one.

I'd say that is quite plain and clear, if one is considering this within the context of beliefs based on the bible.” – Goshin

Well said.

I would also like to add to that…

Daniel 7:13

“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.” - NASB

The name “Son of Man” is used prophetically of Jesus to refer to Himself and is used over 80 times in the New Testament. Jews of the day would not have missed the implication that Jesus was claiming to be God every time he called Himself by this name.

Matthew 26:64-65

“Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN. Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy” - NASB

The Jews of Jesus’ time understood that for Jesus to call Himself “The Son of Man” was to equate Himself with God. This is why the Jews tore their robes and accused Him of blasphemy.

Luke 22:69-71

“But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then?" And He said to them, "Yes, I am."
Then they said, "What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth." - NASB

Again, Jesus equates Himself with God and it is recognized as such by the Jewish leaders.

These are just a few examples. Jesus also calls Himself “the Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 22:13) which is a name exclusive to God alone.

There are many more but this should suffice.
Click to expand...

Blasphemy and heretics There is but one lord and his (first) name is Tucker. May he hear my prayer as I read form the good book:

Tuckerectomies 22:41 And thus the lord spaketh unto Tucker, "Go forth, ye heathenous bastard, and spread thine stupidity far and wide, implanting thy seed in many a female, for it is thy Lord's will that thine seed be planted." So Spaketh the Lord thy God

22:42 And Tucker doth went forth and spreadest his seed in as many ways as he could until one day he found a rocky place where his seed could not find purchase and he called out "Oh Lord, why has thou given this fair maiden a Womb of Stone? Is she not pious enough? Doth she give effrontery to thine glory?"

22:43 And the Lord doth spaketh up, "No Tucker, She doth not give effrontery to mine glory. She is just a sheep, you simple-minded fool."

May he smite all the other false Gods before him so that we may join him in the short yellow bus in the sky.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom