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What is your religion?

What is your religion?


  • Total voters
    132
Why are agnostics and atheists always lumped together?

Atheists do not believe in any form of God. Agnostics or even Deists think something Godly mite be out there, they just don't know what.

So why would they be grouped together?

Because an atheist is the same thing as a non-theist. Its just that most people incorrectly associate atheism with a minority of atheists who have a positive belief in God(s) non-existence.
 
I don't believe in fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, garden gnomes, santa claus, or any gods and goddesses.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real though:2razz:
 
This is the second thread without a proper alternative to the Mainstream cu... I mean religions. :3oops:. I demand the next Poll provide proper choices like Pagan/Shamanist.

Yeah! What is up with everybody always leaving paganism out:(
 
I find it baffling how many people can believe in the miracles of Jesus and Moses, or even the various miracles of the Catholic saints, and not believe in any other magic or give credence to any modern day miracles. I don't understand how someone can believe in angels, but not ghosts or fairies or any other kind of spirit.

In short, I can understand how a person of Christian faith can label such things as "unclean" or dangerous, but not how they can dismiss them as "superstition."

I have never understood this as most mainstream Christian religions are riddled in ritual and the Bible is stuff full of Magick:2razz:
 
This is the second thread without a proper alternative to the Mainstream cu... I mean religions. :3oops:. I demand the next Poll provide proper choices like Pagan/Shamanist.
and Jedi Knights, it's an official religion in the UK, 65000 members at the last census!
 
I find it baffling how many people can believe in the miracles of Jesus and Moses, or even the various miracles of the Catholic saints, and not believe in any other magic or give credence to any modern day miracles. I don't understand how someone can believe in angels, but not ghosts or fairies or any other kind of spirit.

In short, I can understand how a person of Christian faith can label such things as "unclean" or dangerous, but not how they can dismiss them as "superstition."
FWIW, I certainly do believe in all of that stuff, and I don't think anything in the Bible tells us not to. I do however recall passages exhorting the believer to stay away from certain of those things, though.
 
That is a common misconception, often repeated but incorrect.

Allow me to elucidate:



Seems quite clear that Jesus was proclaiming that he was the promised Messiah and Redeemer, the Christ, the Son of God. He proclaimed plainly that he was the only way to God, and whoever had seen him had seen God the Father, because they were one.

I'd say that is quite plain and clear, if one is considering this within the context of beliefs based on the bible.

Who put together the modern Bible? hmmmm lets see was it Jesus? Nope it was a roman Emperor looking for away to organize and reestablish his empire ding ding ding we have a winner.


In the Council of Nicaea, “the Church had taken her first great step to define doctrine more precisely:3oops: in response to a challenge from a heretical theology.”[8] The writings and teachings of early church fathers presented even greater challenges for the Church in defining exactly what was considered the heretical theology prior to the First Council of Nicaea. Early Christian apologist Justin Martyr clearly presented his earlier teachings on the logos (Jesus relationship to Father) in the Dialogue with Trypho (Dialogue with Trypho, 56). The resolutions in the council, being ecumenical, were intended for the whole Church.

The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as Homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation of God the Father. A third group (now known as Homoiousians) later tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance.[22]

Much of the debate hinged on the difference between being "born" or "created" and being "begotten". Arians saw these as the same; followers of Alexander did not. Indeed, the exact meaning of many of the words used in the debates at Nicaea were still unclear to speakers of other languages. Greek words like "essence" (ousia), "substance" (hypostasis), "nature" (physis), "person" (prosopon) bore a variety of meanings drawn from pre-Christian philosophers, which could not but entail misunderstandings until they were cleared up. The word homoousia, in particular, was initially disliked by many bishops because of its associations with Gnostic heretics (who used it in their theology), and because it had been condemned at the 264–268 Synods of Antioch.

Homoousians believed that to follow the Arian view destroyed the unity of the Godhead, and made the Son unequal to the Father, in contravention of the Scriptures ("The Father and I are one", John 10:30). Arians, on the other hand, believed that since God the Father created the Son, he must have emanated from the Father, and thus be lesser than the Father, in that the Father is eternal, but the Son was created afterward and, thus, is not eternal. The Arians likewise appealed to Scripture, quoting verses such as John 14:28: "the Father is greater than I". Homoousians countered the Arians' argument, saying that the Father's fatherhood, like all of his attributes, is eternal. Thus, the Father was always a father, and that the Son, therefore, always existed with him.

The Council declared that the Father and the Son are of the same substance and are co-eternal, basing the declaration in the claim that this was a formulation of traditional Christian belief handed down from the Apostles. This belief was expressed in the Nicene Creed.

basically the Christian Church and belief structure was developed after Jesus was long dead (If he ever existed to begin with), its structure was made to strengthen the Christian movement and organize it, it had nothing to do with what Jesus supposedly preached.
 
FWIW, I certainly do believe in all of that stuff, and I don't think anything in the Bible tells us not to. I do however recall passages exhorting the believer to stay away from certain of those things, though.

Oh, certainly. And it makes perfect sense to me for a Christian-- or any other Abrahamite-- to forsake the use of sorcery and even other forms of spiritual development that aren't specifically a part of their faith. My own faith tends to look down upon sorcery as a womanly art, and many of my fellow Asatruar consider making use of any non-Germanic spiritual practices as distancing yourself from the Reginn and the traditions of our ancestors.

It's just confusing to me how people can be Biblical literalists, and then decide that God must have stopped handing out prophecies and miracles two thousand years ago without so much as an explanation.
 
Oxymoron, you started off asserting that Jesus never said he was the Son of God, the Christ. Presumably this was an argument within the context of the Biblical record.

Now you want to change the argument to whether the Bible is authentic or can be relyed on.

We could argue about Textus Receptus vs Textus Sinaiaticus, Roman vs Protestant bible, etc etc for 50 pages until everyone is bored to tears.

Instead I'll cut to the heart of the matter.

If one begins from theism, from a belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent eternal God, who can bend Time like a rubber band and play billiards with black holes just for kicks...

...and we further postulate that this all-knowing, all-powerful God cares about Man, and is involved in Man's existence (since otherwise he'd be irrelevent to us)...

...then it follows that He would have a message for His creation, and that He would be able to preserve that message down through history, and that any machinations of men would be fruitless and any evil intentions turned to work for good, to preserve that message for future generations.

Child's play for an Omnipotent Omniscient.

But if you don't believe the Bible is worthy of consideration, just say you don't believe: if that's the case there's little point in arguing scripture with you is there?
 
^^Is anybody going to call this belief irrational? That was very well argued.
 
But if you don't believe the Bible is worthy of consideration, just say you don't believe: if that's the case there's little point in arguing scripture with you is there?

There are degrees of accuracy and reliability. I think it's necessary to take historical context into account when attempting to draw meaning from the Bible, just as one must take into account that the shift from the Old Testament to the New Testament represents a massive shift not only in the relationship between your God and his worshipers, but between your God and non-believers.

For what it's worth, you can believe in much of the Bible as a historical account and spiritual account of the Jews and their enemies-- and the conflicting faiths of each-- while still keeping in mind the Bible's intended audience and the author's relationship with them.
 
^^Is anybody going to call this belief irrational? That was very well argued.

It's a compelling argument, but it does kick us screaming into the pit of subjectivity, because if the omnipotent and omniscient god has protected his message to humanity over the centuries, then we're left with the problem that differing translations and interpretations of the Bible must all be true and that contradictions between them must be minor and/or irrelevant points.

And then there's the arguments over which of these interpretations are valid, and which are distortions and deliberate heresies. I think we can all agree upon the divine inspiration of Moses and most of us upon the divinity or at least the inspiration of Jesus-- but that still leaves us with the question of the legitimacy of Mohammed and/or Joseph Smith. I must confess to being unable to answer that, and being thankful that I do not need to.
 
It's tough to say what scripture is inspired by God and which isn't. However, I think you're going too far in saying that all interpretations must be right. I think it stops at the text. Once we start interpreting we have to be careful.
 
Oh, certainly. And it makes perfect sense to me for a Christian-- or any other Abrahamite-- to forsake the use of sorcery and even other forms of spiritual development that aren't specifically a part of their faith. My own faith tends to look down upon sorcery as a womanly art, and many of my fellow Asatruar consider making use of any non-Germanic spiritual practices as distancing yourself from the Reginn and the traditions of our ancestors.

It's just confusing to me how people can be Biblical literalists, and then decide that God must have stopped handing out prophecies and miracles two thousand years ago without so much as an explanation.
Agreed. I don't know where a person would come to the conclusion that supernatural occurrences stopped when the Biblical Canon was completed. And there is certainly a mountain of anecdotal evidence that, while not dispositive, should count for something, one would think.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't a lot of charlatans out there ...
 
Oxymoron, you started off asserting that Jesus never said he was the Son of God, the Christ. Presumably this was an argument within the context of the Biblical record.

It is in the context of all information availble, there is no evidence that he ever claimed to be God, no evidence that he even existed as described.

Now you want to change the argument to whether the Bible is authentic or can be relyed on.

No I am saying the current Bible was "corrected" much later then the supposed time of Jesus.




...then it follows that He would have a message for His creation, and that He would be able to preserve that message down through history, and that any machinations of men would be fruitless and any evil intentions turned to work for good, to preserve that message for future generations.

so what is the freaking point? You are describing a Dog tring to catch its tail.

.

But if you don't believe the Bible is worthy of consideration, just say you don't believe: if that's the case there's little point in arguing scripture with you is there

The Bible is a worthy historical artifact but to live life thinking there is nothing else to learn and a simple obedience to Jesus is all that is required for a fufilling life is a waste of time. God doesnt care for your obedience, he doesnt even know that you exist. You are a cell and God is the Organism.
 
It's tough to say what scripture is inspired by God and which isn't. However, I think you're going too far in saying that all interpretations must be right. I think it stops at the text. Once we start interpreting we have to be careful.

But you can't simply stop at the text, and you cannot avoid interpretation, because the text itself is contradictory-- not only between different translations, but within them. The text itself is an interpretation of a prior text, and even assuming divine guidance, the differences in those interpretations must be considered and reconciled if the true message is to be understood. And then there is the matter of those things which are "cultural context" because they would be considered morally unacceptable by modern cultures-- such as nearly the whole of Leviticus.

Not to mention, whether or not "the text" includes portions or the entirety of the New Testament, the Apocrypha, the Koran or the Book of Mormon. Determining which texts to consider canon seems to be itself a matter of interpretation and faith.
 
I know, but you included the books of Moses and the Gospels which many would agree were divinely inspired. We have to interpret, but we can't say that all interpretations are right, which is the vibe I was getting from you a few posts back.
 
It is in the context of all information availble, there is no evidence that he ever claimed to be God, no evidence that he even existed as described.

In the bible, there is: I posted some of it for you, Baron posted some more. If you choose not to accept what the Bible says, then there is little point in us talking about what Jesus did or didn't claim as the bible is the record of his teachings.

No I am saying the current Bible was "corrected" much later then the supposed time of Jesus.

so what is the freaking point? You are describing a Dog tring to catch its tail.

The Bible is a worthy historical artifact but to live life thinking there is nothing else to learn and a simple obedience to Jesus is all that is required for a fufilling life is a waste of time. God doesnt care for your obedience, he doesnt even know that you exist. You are a cell and God is the Organism.


I'm sorry you feel that way; your statements are, btw, as dogmatic as any I've ever made, just from the opposing stance. Given your position, I see little point in debating the matter with you further. I learned some time ago that banging my head against brick walls was pointless.
 
In the bible, there is: I posted some of it for you, Baron posted some more.

The bible was written after Jesus was long dead, taking it at face value is not very logical given that its not a historical account. You want to believe in it, fine but your are closing your mind.

If you choose not to accept what the Bible says, then there is little point in us talking about what Jesus did or didn't claim as the bible is the record of his teachings.

There is a thing called archeology and history, by which we can figure out a great deal about that time. reffering to the Bible to defend the bible is rather odd.


I'm sorry you feel that way; your statements are, btw, as dogmatic as any I've ever made, just from the opposing stance.

Yes my Dogmatic beliefs that one should question and one should not accept at face value what is given with out evidence.:roll:

Given your position, I see little point in debating the matter with you further. I learned some time ago that banging my head against brick walls was pointless
.

oh God :roll:
 
You are God? Well nice to meet you.


No, but you may consider me a direct communication router to the Almighty... since, in spiritual sense, I am. :mrgreen:

Now, did you have any requests, like rocky road ice cream for dessert tonight, or were you just taking His name in vain again? That annoys Him a bit, you know, but He is quite the forgiving sort. :fyi:


(I'm just yankin' yer chain, dude)
 
No, but you may consider me a direct communication router to the Almighty... since, in spiritual sense, I am. :mrgreen:

thank you but I prefer no middleman, I talk to god everyday.

Now, did you have any requests, like rocky road ice cream for dessert tonight, or were you just taking His name in vain again? That annoys Him a bit, you know, but He is quite the forgiving sort. :fyi:

1.God is not a name
2. Rocky road ice cream does sound pleasant


;)
 
It's a compelling argument, but it does kick us screaming into the pit of subjectivity, because if the omnipotent and omniscient god has protected his message to humanity over the centuries, then we're left with the problem that differing translations and interpretations of the Bible must all be true and that contradictions between them must be minor and/or irrelevant points.

And then there's the arguments over which of these interpretations are valid, and which are distortions and deliberate heresies. I think we can all agree upon the divine inspiration of Moses and most of us upon the divinity or at least the inspiration of Jesus-- but that still leaves us with the question of the legitimacy of Mohammed and/or Joseph Smith. I must confess to being unable to answer that, and being thankful that I do not need to.

I have my preferred translations, of course, as well as those I think poorly of. Naturally there are methods of interpretation/hermeneutics that I favor and others I consider ill-advised.

But I believe that if you open the Bible, almost any translation of the Bible you have on hand, and read with an open heart and an open mind, that you will find a message from God for you within it... if that is what you are genuinely seeking.

Opinions will differ of course...undoubtably some differing opinion will be along directly. :mrgreen:
 
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