View Poll Results: What is your religion?

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  • Protestant Christian

    28 17.50%
  • Roman Catholic Christian

    10 6.25%
  • Sunni Muslim

    5 3.13%
  • Shiite Muslim

    1 0.63%
  • Jewish

    4 2.50%
  • Buddhist

    3 1.88%
  • Hindu

    2 1.25%
  • Atheist/Agnostic

    67 41.88%
  • Other

    40 25.00%
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Thread: What is your religion?

  1. #361
    Dorset Patriot
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It is logical for a being to exist that was not born, nor will die? It is also logical that this being is omnipotent?
    Now I'm not one to enter these debates much but here goes.

    What do you mean by being?

    As I quoted recently Rene Guenon sums up the idea of being in its completeness quite well:

    If we [...] define Being in the universal sense as the principle of manifestation, and at the same time as comprising in itself the totality of possibilities of all manifestation, we must say that Being is not infinite because it does not coincide with total Possibility; and all the more so because Being, as the principle of manifestation, although it does indeed comprise all the possibilities of manifestation, does so only insofar as they are actually manifested. Outside of Being, therefore, are all the rest, that is all the possibilities of non-manifestation, as well as the possibilities of manifestation themselves insofar as they are in the unmanifested state; and included among these is Being itself, which cannot belong to manifestation since it is the principle thereof, and in consequence is itself unmanifested. For want of any other term, we are obliged to designate all that is thus outside and beyond Being as "Non-Being", but for us this negative term is in no way synonym for `nothingness`


    So God in his personal, manifested sense is simply all this being and is obviously beyond birth and death because these things are part of being, but he is not everything in this sense; God in his totality is beyond being, he contains being but is himself non-being; reality, all-possibilty; the absolute, unmanifested totality.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 12:50 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #362
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Here is how:












    My response to Dr. Patrick:







    Personally I don't have a problem with what Eg talks about in those quotes, the idea that drugs can help, albeit often unpredictably, in mystic encounters is a common religious idea. His later rejection of it and strange acceptance of mainstream, Western Atheism is the weird thing. It seems to me this has a lot to do with his political and social ideology; he very much dislikes traditional, particularly Western, religion it seems to me.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 12:56 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #363
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Now I'm not one to enter these debates much but here goes.

    What do you mean by being?

    As I quoted recently Rene Guenon sums up the idea of being in its completeness quite well:

    If we [...] define Being in the universal sense as the principle of manifestation, and at the same time as comprising in itself the totality of possibilities of all manifestation, we must say that Being is not infinite because it does not coincide with total Possibility; and all the more so because Being, as the principle of manifestation, although it does indeed comprise all the possibilities of manifestation, does so only insofar as they are actually manifested. Outside of Being, therefore, are all the rest, that is all the possibilities of non-manifestation, as well as the possibilities of manifestation themselves insofar as they are in the unmanifested state; and included among these is Being itself, which cannot belong to manifestation since it is the principle thereof, and in consequence is itself unmanifested. For want of any other term, we are obliged to designate all that is thus outside and beyond Being as "Non-Being", but for us this negative term is in no way synonym for `nothingness`


    So God in his personal, manifested sense is simply all this being and is obviously beyond birth and death because these things are part of being, but he is not everything in this sense; God in his totality is beyond being, he contains being but is himself non-being; reality, all-possibilty; the absolute, unmanifested totality.
    Why can't god manifest as a being even though he is obviously more than the perceived manifestation?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  4. #364
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Here is how:


    My response to Dr. Patrick:

    Most people... in the book. Not most people in general. The people who were under the influence of DMT in a controlled setting encountered supposed suprahuman beings that fit many Jungian archetypes. How is this based in faith?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  5. #365
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Personally I don't have a problem with what Eg talks about in those quotes, the idea that drugs can help, albeit often unpredictably, in mystic encounters is a common religious idea. His later rejection of it and strange acceptance of mainstream, Western Atheism is the weird thing.
    When have I rejected that drugs can help people have spiritual experiences? That's the only reason I've ever taken psychedelics. Also, I'm a bit more of a pantheist now.

    It seems to me this has a lot to do with his political and social ideology; he very much dislikes traditional, particularly Western, religion it seems to me.
    I used to dislike Western religion. Then I started encountering and conversing with intelligent Christians. It's the literal interpretation of the Bible I find to be silly.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #366
    ANTI**ANTIFA
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Most people... in the book. Not most people in general. The people who were under the influence of DMT in a controlled setting encountered supposed suprahuman beings that fit many Jungian archetypes. How is this based in faith?



    What book? There is no book.... zen chanting.



    (you are changing your origional position on them sentient beings. )
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #367
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Personally I don't have a problem with what Eg talks about in those quotes, the idea that drugs can help, albeit often unpredictably, in mystic encounters is a common religious idea. His later rejection of it and strange acceptance of mainstream, Western Atheism is the weird thing. It seems to me this has a lot to do with his political and social ideology; he very much dislikes traditional, particularly Western, religion it seems to me.


    I don't either, it's easy to tease though.


    I agree is acceptence of western Athierism, is strange, considering his past musings.....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #368
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What book? There is no book.... zen chanting.



    (you are changing your origional position on them sentient beings. )
    How am I changing my original position?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  9. #369
    Dorset Patriot
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    When have I rejected that drugs can help people have spiritual experiences? That's the only reason I've ever taken psychedelics. Also, I'm a bit more of a pantheist now.
    I just meant you seemed to reject these previous "musings" in this thread. Maybe me, and the Rev, were wrong in our interpretations though.

    Personally, I sort of agree with you about the drugs although I'd say they were unpredictable and are generally not used by the more "advanced" mystics, like St.John of the Cross, who do not need such things.

    I used to dislike Western religion. Then I started encountering and conversing with intelligent Christians.
    Have you ever looked into the Perennialists and theosophists.? The former excellently show the similarities between the eastern and western religions, while reminding everyone that they distinct paths and must not be blended to destroy their long worked out approaches to the perennial tradition inherent in them. The theosophists are sort of similar and offer some interest insight though they are more likely to devolve into soft ecumenicalism.

    Here is an interesting site on Perennialism.

    http://www.religioperennis.org/

    It's the literal interpretation of the Bible I find to be silly.
    You must take the bible as part of the exoteric dimension of Christianity. As a, broadly speaking Catholic(Anglican not Roman.), I do disagree with the "bible-olotry" you mention but one still must remember that not everyone can be a theologian or mystic, the exoteric, moral and the dogmatic parts of any traditional, revealed(and some unrevealed.) religion help to introduce the average person to the religion and getting them on the right path.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 09:15 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #370
    Dorset Patriot
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Why can't god manifest as a being even though he is obviously more than the perceived manifestation?
    He can, that is what Jesus is in traditional Christian theology.

    http://www.religioperennis.org/docum...er/mystery.pdf
    Last edited by Wessexman; 09-10-09 at 09:20 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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