View Poll Results: What is your religion?

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  • Protestant Christian

    28 17.50%
  • Roman Catholic Christian

    10 6.25%
  • Sunni Muslim

    5 3.13%
  • Shiite Muslim

    1 0.63%
  • Jewish

    4 2.50%
  • Buddhist

    3 1.88%
  • Hindu

    2 1.25%
  • Atheist/Agnostic

    67 41.88%
  • Other

    40 25.00%
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Thread: What is your religion?

  1. #321
    Advisor Realist1's Avatar
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Want has nothing to do with it. Wanting something doesn't make it true or false.

    A wise man once said "The unexamined life isn't worth living." You'll have to decide for yourself whether that is true or not.
    The "Unexamined Life, never Lived', Basically means, a pointless Life. That's how I see it.

    Peace

  2. #322
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    A wise man once said "The unexamined life isn't worth living." You'll have to decide for yourself whether that is true or not.
    Excellent advice, of course, but a related idea is just as important:

    The untested belief isn't worth holding.

    Too bad most theists have no clue what they even believe, much less whether or not any of it is actually true.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  3. #323
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I've times I've had "questions" about you too Ego. We'll see about you too.

    It all depends on the topic, and response.

    Take care.
    If you have questions, pose them and I'll gladly clear anything up.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  4. #324
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I've been keeping a file full of arguments and their rebuttals for the occasion. A lot of the arguments made by theists i hear over and over again therefore having a quick reference of well written responses is useful. That is, its much easier not to have to re-invent the wheel. This happens to be one of them. Its not mine, I found it rather well written by another on a different forum.

    Argument: Atheists and theists both have faith.

    Response: I suggest that with your use of word 'faith' you believe you level the playing field and remove one of the atheist's more powerful arguments, namely that using reason when evaluating truth claims is superior to using faith. This claim commits an equivocation fallacy with the term "faith." The only sort of "faith" which might be common among atheists is that of mere confidence based upon and limited by repeatable, objective experiences. This is the sort of faith which can apply to the "faith" that your brakes will work, or the "faith" that the sun will come up tomorrow. This "faith" is only as strong as the evidence or reason allows and it is defeatable given new evidence or arguments. The faith you claim - religious faith in the existence of a god - is a very different matter - something Paul clearly recognized when he defined faith as the "...assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebr. 11:1) This is not the sort of faith used by those who think that the brakes on their car will work: this is the sort of faith used by those who believe without sound empirical evidence. The fact that atheists might have the former kind of faith and the fact that theists have the latter kind of faith does not mean that atheists and theists are operating or thinking the same way. It does not mean that we are forming and evaluating beliefs in a similar manner.
    That is not faith, that is belief based on evidence and the fact that we can change our beliefs when faced with new evidence makes us rational.

    To call belief based on evidence, faith rather than reason is to utterly misunderstand the term. Faith is belief without evidence. You would call the reason to trust in science, evidence, reason and logic a faith, and then dare to accuse us of equivocating?

    If my belief that the sun will rise again tomorrow is a "faith," then EVERYTHING that can be known is. All you're doing is trying to paint atheists as faith based, and failing at it.

    It takes no faith to be unconvinced by logically fallacious arguments for the supernatural.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 09-06-09 at 05:30 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  5. #325
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    That is not faith, that is belief based on evidence and the fact that we can change our beliefs when faced with new evidence makes us rational.
    That is exactly what I said minus your claim that you are unequivocally more rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    To call belief based on evidence, faith rather than reason is to utterly misunderstand the term.
    I agree and why I said its an equivocation fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Faith is belief without evidence.
    Depends on whose definition you use. Every theist seems to have a different definition for faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    You would call the reason to trust in science, evidence, reason and logic a faith, and then dare to accuse us of equivocating?
    you need to re-read what I posted. You don't seem to understand I'm in 100% agreement with you.
    Last edited by scourge99; 09-06-09 at 08:39 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #326
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Athiests have faith that there is no God, they believe "There is no God", not "I don't know".....


    Unless you can prove how the universe was created, what was there before it, etc etc... saying "there is no God" is faith, in a belief that "there is no god"....


    That's how I see it.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #327
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Athiests have faith that there is no God, they believe "There is no God", not "I don't know".....
    Some atheists might. I can't speak for all atheists.

    Most people who believe the sun will come up tomorrow don't have "faith" that it will come up. What they have is a confidence based upon and limited by repeatable, objective experiences. But what you want to do is claim that such people have faith because they don't believe that the sun won't come up tomorrow. What you fail to comprehend is that atheists and theists are not operating or thinking the same way. We are not forming and evaluating beliefs in a similar manner. So your use of the word "faith" on both types of people is an equivocation: Equivocation is classified as both a formal and informal fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Unless you can prove how the universe was created, what was there before it, etc etc... saying "there is no God" is faith, in a belief that "there is no god"....
    Once again you are equivocating by ignoring the vast differences in reasoning. An atheist doesn't have to claim to know where everything came from in order to conclude there is no valid evidence or reason to believe in the Christian God. It isn't a conclusion based upon "...assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." The only sort of "faith" which might be common among atheists is that of mere confidence based upon and limited by repeatable, objective experiences. This "faith" is only as strong as the evidence or reason allows and it is defeatable given new evidence or arguments. Once again, you are equivocating with your use of the word "faith". Equivocation is classified as both a formal and informal fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time).
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #328
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Athiests have faith that there is no God, they believe "There is no God", not "I don't know".....
    Which only proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Those who say "I don't know" are still atheists, atheism is simply the state of not being a theist. A vast majority of atheists do not demand "there is no God", they simply find no evidence whatsoever for the factual existence of God, therefore they don't believe in one.

    Of course, I predict you won't be able to differentiate between the two.

    Unless you can prove how the universe was created, what was there before it, etc etc... saying "there is no God" is faith, in a belief that "there is no god"....
    Actually, we're doing a pretty good job. We don't have a complete answer but we certainly have excellent ideas and evidence to back them up. But even if we didn't, that doesn't give theists license to just make crap up because they don't like not knowing. That's essentially what religion is.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  9. #329
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    A vast majority of atheists do not demand "there is no God", they simply find no evidence whatsoever for the factual existence of God, therefore they don't believe in one.
    Proof?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But even if we didn't, that doesn't give theists license to just make crap up because they don't like not knowing. That's essentially what religion is.
    My, how bigoted you are. Since when did you gain the right to tell me what I may believe?

  10. #330
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    Re: What is your religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Proof?
    I agree with Cephus. I do not make the claim that God does not exist. That would require that I support my claim with facts and evidence, which I cannot do since God is supernatural and illogical.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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