"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"
Cicero Marcus Tullius
Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
"True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero
We are discussing beliefs. Something does not have to be proven true, shown as logical, or anything else to have a belief in it.
Agnosticism is a claim about knowledge, which is related to whether one believes God(s) exist but does not answer the question. This is why claiming "agnosticm" as your religious belief doesn't make sense because it does not answer the question. There can be agnostic theists and agnostic atheists. Likewise there can be gnostic theists and gnostic atheists.
Agnostic simply means you can't know certainty.
Gnostic means you believe you can know certainty.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s), (not necessarily active disbelief).
Theism is simply a belief in God(s).
For people unfaimiliar with these distinctions, agnostics are usually agnostic athiests.
Agnostic atheist - does not believe the existence of Gods can be known and does not believe or has a lack of belief in God(s).
Gnostic atheist - believes the existence of Gods can be known and does not believe or has a lack of belief in God(s).
Agnostic theist - does not believe the existence of Gods can be known and believes in God(s).
Gnostic theist - believes the existence of Gods can be known and believes in God(s).
Once again, beliefs don't have to be true, verifiable, logical, etc. A belief is simply confidence in a claim.
Also note that atheists include those who lack a belief--as opposed to disbelief. E.G., people who are undecided on whether God(s) exists or not and people who have never considered the question of God(s). (Remember, agnosticism is a claim about knowledge, not God)
I'm not talking about respect, I'm talking about basic politeness... though on this forum that would appear to be a lost cause.
Do you talk like that to religious people face to face in the real world? I don't mean the random zealot on the street, I mean the nice lady you work with who serves food to the homeless at the Presbyterian soup kitchen, the nice guy across the street who happens to be Methodist and works with his church's teen outreach down in the 'hood, the friendly receptionist at that office who wears a cross and goes to Mass every Sunday. When one of them says "God bless you" do you tell them "I don't need the blessings of your imaginary man in the sky"?
If I went out of my way to tell DP atheists they're going to hell for rejecting God, with the same frequency that DP atheists call my beliefs nonsense or use belittling phrases like you used, I'd be viewed as a rude, aggressive, hostile zealot.
Fiddling While Rome Burns
Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."
~Following My Own Flow~
Atheist. If there is a God, I've seen no satisfactory evidence for hs existence.
"I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party